I have a question

[ShoeDiva]

Goodness BS that was a lot of words! So you believe Christians and Jews (with the incomplete knowledge from Jews that God the Father has sent his son) believe in the same God, but since Islam was created after the Bible when an angel came to Muhammad they do not worship the same God. (Please correct if I have that wrong..again, it was a lot of words)

Thank you for your opinion. I can respect that, and the time it took to come up with that answer, but I am going with the same God. ) Perception and interpretation in religion, even those of us that use the same bible, is very evident right here on the Hwy. It is a good thing, we all come to the table with our opinions and can share.

Cliff notes. Jews and Christians serve the same God the Father but Islam (created 600 years after Christ) is just a made up copulation of different things.

If you want to believe they are all the same, I respect that but can you tell us why you believe that? What basis makes you come to that conclusion? Is it just based on what others have said and convinced you or is it based on Biblical evidence? Just as in this thread, I don't expect anyone to change their mind based on what I said but I would like to see someone to continue to look at evidence presented.

My church and my bil, which if you were not aware is not from this country (though he is now a citizen)and worships at a Mosque. Both say we serve only one God. Again, to reiterate, the beliefs are vastly different, as they are among many religions. I am not saying it makes Islam correct or salvific or equal to Christianity just that they worship the one and only God.

 

[ShoeDiva]

Cliff notes. Jews and Christians serve the same God the Father but Islam (created 600 years after Christ) is just a made up copulation of different things.

copulation - n. sexual intercourse

compilation - n. the act of combining several different things into one work

:laugh :laugh :laugh

Sorry - had to pull a honeybunny there. Of course, you could pull a Sadie and blame it on autocorrect.
[/quote]


:spitchick That totally tops my error of yesterday! ) ) ) ) )

 

[ShoeDiva]

:thumbsup

I come with a bias to the conversation. One of being told all the time, in Georgia, that I am going to Hell because I am not a baptist and can't say;"Oh I was saved on my 13th birthday!" :huh I usually just blow it off, but I do not understand how a person can say that they know all and they (their thoughts on religion) are right. They criticize my belief without even knowing it, and a few internet searches or books do not qualify them to do that. So if a Muslim tells me they worship the one and only God, the same God as I and my Jewish brothers and sisters do, I believe them. I still might not believe in their beliefs, but I believe when they say they are worshiping our one God. JMO

That's pretty much my take on it as well...I never think about it unless the subject comes up such as this. I do take their word for it...it ain't my place to say yea or nay as to what they think or believe.

Ye gods - how much damage has been done to the church in the name of religion. I know what you say about being told you are going to hell is correct, and I grew up in that environment. SUCH judgmental attitudes and mean-spiritedness. That is SOOOOOOO not what God is about. And I will say this - I'm not RC, but devout Catholics put most of the rest of us to SHAME by their devotion to and practice of their faith. And yes, Catholics and Christians are not two different animals. Just as a member of a Baptist church might not be a Christian, so might a member of a Catholic church not be a Christian. But most of the ones I know are, and they are marvelous people. Present company included.

:hug

 

[Blazing Saddles]

Cliff notes. Jews and Christians serve the same God the Father but Islam (created 600 years after Christ) is just a made up copulation of different things.

copulation - n. sexual intercourse

compilation - n. the act of combining several different things into one work

:laugh :laugh :laugh

Sorry - had to pull a honeybunny there. Of course, you could pull a Sadie and blame it on autocorrect.

hahahahaha. that is hilarious. I have swype on my phone and I guess it picked that word and I didn't catch it in time.

 

[mei lan]

Cliff notes. Jews and Christians serve the same God the Father but Islam (created 600 years after Christ) is just a made up copulation of different things.

copulation - n. sexual intercourse

compilation - n. the act of combining several different things into one work

:laugh :laugh :laugh

Sorry - had to pull a honeybunny there. Of course, you could pull a Sadie and blame it on autocorrect.

hahahahaha. that is hilarious. I have swype on my phone and I guess it picked that word and I didn't catch it in time.

DAMN YOU, AUTOCORRECT!!!! hahahahahaaaaa

 

[Blazing Saddles]

Goodness BS that was a lot of words! So you believe Christians and Jews (with the incomplete knowledge from Jews that God the Father has sent his son) believe in the same God, but since Islam was created after the Bible when an angel came to Muhammad they do not worship the same God. (Please correct if I have that wrong..again, it was a lot of words)

Thank you for your opinion. I can respect that, and the time it took to come up with that answer, but I am going with the same God. ) Perception and interpretation in religion, even those of us that use the same bible, is very evident right here on the Hwy. It is a good thing, we all come to the table with our opinions and can share.

Cliff notes. Jews and Christians serve the same God the Father but Islam (created 600 years after Christ) is just a made up copulation of different things.

If you want to believe they are all the same, I respect that but can you tell us why you believe that? What basis makes you come to that conclusion? Is it just based on what others have said and convinced you or is it based on Biblical evidence? Just as in this thread, I don't expect anyone to change their mind based on what I said but I would like to see someone to continue to look at evidence presented.

My church and my bil, which if you were not aware is not from this country (though he is now a citizen)and worships at a Mosque. Both say we serve only one God. Again, to reiterate, the beliefs are vastly different, as they are among many religions. I am not saying it makes Islam correct or salvific or equal to Christianity just that they worship the one and only God.

Here is an interesting article from a Catholic website. A great clear and precise explanation from a Catholic's perception. I agree 100% with this. http://www.justforcatholics.org/islam.htm Up until a 1964 Catechism and 1994 declaration from the Pope, the Catholic Church denied the fact that Muslims and Catholics worshiped the same God. In fact, it is still a topic of great concern to which many Catholics deny.



As for your comment saying your bil says you worship the same God, let me ask this question. If I start a religion that contradicts the God of the Bible to the point where it denies God himself and teaches a doctrine totally different from Scripture, can I then state without any external condemnation that I worship the same loving God that the Bible speaks of?

 

[ShoeDiva]

Goodness BS that was a lot of words! So you believe Christians and Jews (with the incomplete knowledge from Jews that God the Father has sent his son) believe in the same God, but since Islam was created after the Bible when an angel came to Muhammad they do not worship the same God. (Please correct if I have that wrong..again, it was a lot of words)

Thank you for your opinion. I can respect that, and the time it took to come up with that answer, but I am going with the same God. ) Perception and interpretation in religion, even those of us that use the same bible, is very evident right here on the Hwy. It is a good thing, we all come to the table with our opinions and can share.

Cliff notes. Jews and Christians serve the same God the Father but Islam (created 600 years after Christ) is just a made up copulation of different things.

If you want to believe they are all the same, I respect that but can you tell us why you believe that? What basis makes you come to that conclusion? Is it just based on what others have said and convinced you or is it based on Biblical evidence? Just as in this thread, I don't expect anyone to change their mind based on what I said but I would like to see someone to continue to look at evidence presented.

My church and my bil, which if you were not aware is not from this country (though he is now a citizen)and worships at a Mosque. Both say we serve only one God. Again, to reiterate, the beliefs are vastly different, as they are among many religions. I am not saying it makes Islam correct or salvific or equal to Christianity just that they worship the one and only God.

Here is an interesting article from a Catholic website. A great clear and precise explanation from a Catholic's perception. I agree 100% with this. http://www.justforcatholics.org/islam.htm Up until a 1964 Catechism and 1994 declaration from the Pope, the Catholic Church denied the fact that Muslims and Catholics worshiped the same God. In fact, it is still a topic of great concern to which many Catholics deny.



As for your comment saying your bil says you worship the same God, let me ask this question. If I start a religion that contradicts the God of the Bible to the point where it denies God himself and teaches a doctrine totally different from Scripture, can I then state without any external condemnation that I worship the same loving God that the Bible speaks of?

Thanks but no thanks on the article. You do not need to find me an article on what the Catholic teachings are. (Though a website from a former Catholic doesn't help) )

BS you believe they don't worship the same God, I think they do. I am okay with your opinion, but I have a hard time with your analogies because your points are lost on me when you try to do the same thing with me and my religion and tell the "truth" of Catholicism. Do you see what I mean? (said respectfully and just trying to get you to understand where I am coming from)

 

[LisaC]

Finally, as to SD's question as to what God they worship - I don't think they worship the true and living God. Muslims, that is...not Arabs in general. Christians and Jews believe the same thing through the Bible until the end of the Old Testament. The Jews believe that the Messiah has not yet appeared, and we believe that He has indeed appeared, and was crucified for our sin, and raised from the dead by the Father, Who has all power, even over death itself. (And the proof for same is shocking...every person I know of who has set out to disprove it has come away believing.) I will also add that many Jews have also come to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, and are Jewish Christians (Messianic Jews, many call them). There's a great Messianic Jewish congregation in Roswell near East Cobb - Beth Hallel. They also observe the regular Jewish customs and holidays (and some even keep kosher, but they do it out of love, not because of the law).


Muslims do not accept that Jesus is the son of God; they think He's a great prophet, but no more. They have some other pretty out-there ideas as well. They may THINK they are worshipping the same God we worship, but the differences in the two are pretty stark, and I don't believe they worship the God we worship.

If they think they do, and say they do, we can debate differences, but who are we to say they are not? I believe there is one God and it is possible for all to worship Him, even if some people's understanding of Him is deficient. That is how I believe Muslims worship the same God as Christians. I am not saying it makes Islam correct or salvific or equal to Christianity just that they worship the one and only God.

Yeah, I don't see that. And I could be wrong. But God is a good and benevolent, as well as just, God. He is merciful and loving and understanding, and He hates injustice. He hates violence against innocent people. He sent His Son to die for us, so we wouldn't have to pay the penalty for our sin.

From what I understand, Allah is all for adult men marrying 8yo kids and killing everybody who doesn't believe like they do. I don't see a whole lot of common areas there. But like I said - I could be wrong. I'm not going to sit in judgment of somebody else. What they believe or don't believe is between them and God. I got enough to worry about without taking that on.

:thumbsup

I come with a bias to the conversation. One of being told all the time, in Georgia, that I am going to Hell because I am not a baptist and can't say;"Oh I was saved on my 13th birthday!" ??? I usually just blow it off, but I do not understand how a person can say that they know all and they (their thoughts on religion) are right. They criticize my belief without even knowing it, and a few internet searches or books do not qualify them to do that. So if a Muslim tells me they worship the one and only God, the same God as I and my Jewish brothers and sisters do, I believe them. I still might not believe in their beliefs, but I believe when they say they are worshiping our one God. JMO

This is exactly what I have been trying to say. :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

 

[J-man]

So what is implied then is that you are easily deceived? You will believe anything someone tells you as long as they believe what they're saying is true.

 

[LisaC]

So what is implied then is that you are easily deceived? You will believe anything someone tells you as long as they believe what they're saying is true.

No, that is not what is implied. I am saying that they have a right to believe as they wish, just as I have the same right. If they tell me that they worship the one true God, then I am in not position to tell them that they don't, especially when I know very little about their faith.

 

[ShoeDiva]

So what is implied then is that you are easily deceived? You will believe anything someone tells you as long as they believe what they're saying is true.

No, that is not what is implied. I am saying that they have a right to believe as they wish, just as I have the same right. If they tell me that they worship the one true God, then I am in not position to tell them that they don't, especially when I know very little about their faith.

:ditto Plus, when people I know/love/respect and or trust tell me these things I tend to take it as that is what they believe. Heck, I do not agree with many people here, but I do believe they believe the things they are saying to be true, whether I agree with them or not. I do not think they are deceiving me when they say things, it is just their belief.

 

[Blazing Saddles]

So what is implied then is that you are easily deceived? You will believe anything someone tells you as long as they believe what they're saying is true.

No, that is not what is implied. I am saying that they have a right to believe as they wish, just as I have the same right. If they tell me that they worship the one true God, then I am in not position to tell them that they don't, especially when I know very little about their faith.

No body said they don't worship what they think to be the one true god but there is no way they believe the in the same God that Christians do. It has no bearing what a muslim says they believe because the Bible is VERY clear they don't. People are entitled to their own opinions and I'm going to question their basis of their opinions but there is a definite right and wrong here according to the Bible and with that said, it is finished from my side. If you choose to believe what someone else tells you, great, but I will refer to the Holy Bible to clarify God's position. Again, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that but that doesn't mean I can't question your basis on your decision.

 

[J-man]

So what is implied then is that you are easily deceived? You will believe anything someone tells you as long as they believe what they're saying is true.

No, that is not what is implied. I am saying that they have a right to believe as they wish, just as I have the same right. If they tell me that they worship the one true God, then I am in not position to tell them that they don't, especially when I know very little about their faith.

Sorry, but that's how I interpret it. You believe what someone tell you about their faith because it's their faith and they should know, especially when you may know little about their faith.

But that's the whole point of this two day, ten page exercise. It really doesn't matter what I, you, or anyone else for that matter, thinks about any religious beliefs. It boils down to one day being accountable for those beliefs. I will not argue against anyone's beliefs nor will I state that mine are superior. Whether it pertains to sprinkling vs submersion, holding snakes, praying towards Mecca several times per day, burning incense, having multiple wives, or placing a curse on a doll, it's not up to me to judge but rather to reveal The Good News for all to hear but only some to receive.

Who am I to tell someone born in a far away land who was born and raised under one religion by parents and grandparents and community practicing the same religion that they have it wrong. All I can do is share the gospel and let the Spirit work. Oh, and pray for them (I threw in that one just for Stradial).

 

[LisaC]

So what is implied then is that you are easily deceived? You will believe anything someone tells you as long as they believe what they're saying is true.

No, that is not what is implied. I am saying that they have a right to believe as they wish, just as I have the same right. If they tell me that they worship the one true God, then I am in not position to tell them that they don't, especially when I know very little about their faith.

No body said they don't worship what they think to be the one true god but there is no way they believe the in the same God that Christians do. It has no bearing what a muslim says they believe because the Bible is VERY clear they don't. People are entitled to their own opinions and I'm going to question their basis of their opinions but there is a definite right and wrong here according to the Bible and with that said, it is finished from my side. If you choose to believe what someone else tells you, great, but I will refer to the Holy Bible to clarify God's position. Again, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that but that doesn't mean I can't question your basis on your decision.

Question away, I don't mind at all. But know, that just because we don't agree on something, that doesn't make you any more right or wrong than I (and vice versa).

 

[Blazing Saddles]

So what is implied then is that you are easily deceived? You will believe anything someone tells you as long as they believe what they're saying is true.

No, that is not what is implied. I am saying that they have a right to believe as they wish, just as I have the same right. If they tell me that they worship the one true God, then I am in not position to tell them that they don't, especially when I know very little about their faith.

No body said they don't worship what they think to be the one true god but there is no way they believe the in the same God that Christians do. It has no bearing what a muslim says they believe because the Bible is VERY clear they don't. People are entitled to their own opinions and I'm going to question their basis of their opinions but there is a definite right and wrong here according to the Bible and with that said, it is finished from my side. If you choose to believe what someone else tells you, great, but I will refer to the Holy Bible to clarify God's position. Again, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that but that doesn't mean I can't question your basis on your decision.

Question away, I don't mind at all. But know, that just because we don't agree on something, that doesn't make you any more right or wrong than I (and vice versa).

I never declared this a "I'm right your wrong issue". I'm just defending what the Bible is very clear on. If someone wants to believe something different, more power to them but the Bible truth doesn't change. It stands alone. I can believe that 2 and 2 equals 5 but that doesn't change the truth that it equals 4.

 

[Blazing Saddles]

I have a final thought.....if Islam is the same god, why did they need a new religion? Truth is, God was rejected by Mohammed and was susceptible to demonic influence that ultimately changed the world.

 

[gog8tors]

I really thought this was a fairly simple question.
Another thing, I'm glad I grew up in the Baptist church that I grew up in. We were never taught that Catholics are going to hell. I'm not sure why what the number birthday you were saved on matters. I never heard of these things. The holy rollers were looked at as not being all there, as were/are the snake handlers, but if they have a personal relationship with God, and they have accepted Jesus then they are saved.
As far as Catholics, we just were of the opinion that praying to other people then Jesus borders on idol worship. We also have an issue with confessing to a mortal man, who really doesn't have the power to forgive you of your sins. Then there is the issue with the Crucifix. Baptist see it as Jesus still on the cross. We wear a cross that is empty because Jesus was taken down, and placed in the tomb, then as we all know he rose 3 days later, and ascended to haven 40 days after that.
Anyway I'm thinking that the answer to the OP is that Muslims are actually Islamist. So, now that leads to the question, are all Islamist, Muslims? Like Christianity has different denominations is it the same for Islam?

 

[ShoeDiva]

I have a final thought.....if Islam is the same god, why did they need a new religion? Truth is, God was rejected by Mohammed and was susceptible to demonic influence that ultimately changed the world.

Truth is...your truth is not always the same as another's. ;D

 

[ShoeDiva]

I really thought this was a fairly simple question.
Another thing, I'm glad I grew up in the Baptist church that I grew up in. We were never taught that Catholics are going to hell. I'm not sure why what the number birthday you were saved on matters. I never heard of these things. The holy rollers were looked at as not being all there, as were/are the snake handlers, but if they have a personal relationship with God, and they have accepted Jesus then they are saved.
As far as Catholics, we just were of the opinion that praying to other people then Jesus borders on idol worship. We also have an issue with confessing to a mortal man, who really doesn't have the power to forgive you of your sins. Then there is the issue with the Crucifix. Baptist see it as Jesus still on the cross. We wear a cross that is empty because Jesus was taken down, and placed in the tomb, then as we all know he rose 3 days later, and ascended to haven 40 days after that.
Anyway I'm thinking that the answer to the OP is that Muslims are actually Islamist. So, now that leads to the question, are all Islamist, Muslims? Like Christianity has different denominations is it the same for Islam?

The age of the birthday was not what matters, it was that I could not say that and the disdain that comes after. )

 

[gog8tors]

I really thought this was a fairly simple question.
Another thing, I'm glad I grew up in the Baptist church that I grew up in. We were never taught that Catholics are going to hell. I'm not sure why what the number birthday you were saved on matters. I never heard of these things. The holy rollers were looked at as not being all there, as were/are the snake handlers, but if they have a personal relationship with God, and they have accepted Jesus then they are saved.
As far as Catholics, we just were of the opinion that praying to other people then Jesus borders on idol worship. We also have an issue with confessing to a mortal man, who really doesn't have the power to forgive you of your sins. Then there is the issue with the Crucifix. Baptist see it as Jesus still on the cross. We wear a cross that is empty because Jesus was taken down, and placed in the tomb, then as we all know he rose 3 days later, and ascended to haven 40 days after that.
Anyway I'm thinking that the answer to the OP is that Muslims are actually Islamist. So, now that leads to the question, are all Islamist, Muslims? Like Christianity has different denominations is it the same for Islam?

The age of the birthday was not what matters, it was that I could not say that and the disdain that comes after. )

OK, never heard of that. :dunno Most people come to accept Jesus about the age of 12-15. Well at least in my experience.