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- Thread starter CeeJay
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stradial
Guest
Just a quick note.
We have all been through hard, at least I presume we have.
There are hard times and there are hard times.
I have been through hard times where I had very little extra money and ate a lot of Ramen noodles.
Then I have been through hard times where I had $5 and no money, that I knew for sure about, coming in for 5-6 days.
Then I had to decide, do I use it all for gas at this time or do I just put a dollar of gas in at a time, in case I need to buy peanut butter to eat.
Those are hard times.
Only those who are in those situations know what is what.
By the way, a few of those hard times I thought I had made good decisions, but I was wrong.
Most of the hard times, I just made bad decisions without much thought involved.
We have all been through hard, at least I presume we have.
There are hard times and there are hard times.
I have been through hard times where I had very little extra money and ate a lot of Ramen noodles.
Then I have been through hard times where I had $5 and no money, that I knew for sure about, coming in for 5-6 days.
Then I had to decide, do I use it all for gas at this time or do I just put a dollar of gas in at a time, in case I need to buy peanut butter to eat.
Those are hard times.
Only those who are in those situations know what is what.
By the way, a few of those hard times I thought I had made good decisions, but I was wrong.
Most of the hard times, I just made bad decisions without much thought involved.
stradial said:
I think people assume some of us don't know what hard times are. I've used change to buy bread and chicken noodle soup and a dozen eggs to last for the rest of month. Many times. For a few years in a row. I think there was a spell there where I didn't buy a stitch of clothing for myself besides some work shirts at the thrift store for three or four years. I really didn't like it, don't think much about it now.
I really don't mind free lunch. Mine would never eat it, but I don't begrudge a kid some food. Until I see them pull out a wad of bills out of their pocket that is more than I have in the bank. Then I wonder. (Yep, more than once.)
I think we should help people who NEED it. Then it wouldn't be such a tax burden on the rest of us and we wouldn't think twice about it. If you NEED it, you should have it. If you don't really NEED it, but just WANT it, that is different.
I never thought that way until I worked in a public school and saw the flagrant abuse year after year. Free lunch families rolling up in Escalades. Kids who pay for their lunch being made fun of by kids who are wearing nicer clothing because they are fully subsidized. Kids telling me they were going to get a gov't check when they grow up. I just think we need to roll it back a bit and THINK about what we consume and where it comes from and who actually pays the bills.
I think we are in dangerous territory and we need to change how think and how we do things. Why isn't a simple life good enough anymore?
S
stradial
Guest
CeeJay said:
I understand where you are coming from and what you are saying.
I doubt anyone begrudges anyone help during rough times, but there are some who are just takers.
I certainly don't blame anyone for sticking to their convictions. If someone is against assistance, no matter their circumstance, then I respect their right to privacy and personal work ethics or values. I've known many people, some of which were family members, who truly needed assistance but were too "stubborn" to ask for help or accept any if offered, as well as many who were just determined to provide for their own no matter how tough things became. But on the flip side, I don't hold it against anyone for accepting benefits for which they are legally qualified to receive under the current rules. I don't necessarily agree with them, but if they're playing fair under the rules of the board game I have no problem with it. My disagreement may be the rules of the game and those who make the rules. I do applaud those who work hard and do whatever it takes to provide for themselves and their family members (kids, elderly parents, those with special or medical needs, and extended family members). I have a soft heart for kids, especially kids with true needs. I have a hardened heart for parents who neglect their kids by pinching pennies from groceries in order to fund their habits or own needs. We have parents who can't remember their kid is locked in a hot car so I'm sure they are many parents who can't remember to feed their kid.
I know I come off sounding like an a-hole. Like I said, this is hard to discuss with people because 1.) it's money related and people are weird about money 2.) we have so many different views about what we really need.
cptsomethingsomenumber asked me one time why I bother posting this crap on a message board in the middle of nowhere that nobody will read. I think maybe it's just venting, just getting it out so I can get on with it. It isn't good to let things fester. Do I think it will make any difference whatsoever? Nope. Will anyone change their thinking? No, probably not.
Let me put some numbers on "free lunch." In my case, I got a refund this year of less than $300. After I paid HRBlock for the online filing, less than $200. They kept about $10k. I try to not put in much more than I will owe, don't want the gov't getting all happy with my money. I don't make triple figures. I don't make THAT much more than the free lunch eligigle people. I'm not in the 1%. Plus, I was kinda expecting more of a refund this year because I moved and donated over $5k to charities. (I highly recommend AADD.org, good organization as far as I can tell.) The only reason I didn't have to pay thousands more at the end of the year is that I paid an astronomical amount in insurance premiums and copays. Those costs were huge enough that the standard deduction was less than the itemized deducation. Scary, I know.
The way I see it, only about half of working adults pay income taxes. The other half get a "refund" of more than they contributed. If the other half paid, I would only have had to contribute about $5k (income tax, keep in mind I pay all the other taxes everybody else pays). My car is six years old and I will need another one soon. Will I buy one? Hell.No. Mine is paid off and I'll just keep nursing it along until it drops because I'm afraid to increase my monthly expenses. And I really wanted to take my family to the new Harry Potter at Universal. We saw the other one and we really, really, really wanted to see the new one. But I couldn't.
Now if you REALLY need something, I will definitely help. Anybody who actually knows me knows they can call day or night and I will help them or a friend or a friend of a friend. But damn, if you don't REALLY need something, you are kinda screwing over me and my kids. Yes, I know other people will just use that benefit if you don't so you might as well. I truly believe that, too. I just get kinda sick of the constant and uncontrolled benefits with no end in sight. Because that doesn't leave me and my family much to look forward to but more of the same.
I was offered more classes, a chance to make more bank outside of my salary. In the past I would have jumped at the chance. I was the extra-shift, two-or-more-job girl. Not now. Now it isn't worth for me to spend less time with my kids and more time earning money for somebody else. Because if you are over 150% of the poverty level and NOT rich, you get screwed when you earn more. They just take most of it and I end up tired and a little put out by it. So now I am less motivated like the people who take what they don't need. And we are all a little worse off.
Am I an a-hole for this? I don't think so. I am just the one willing to say it out loud because it is sinking in to me that it will never change. So I might as well just say it, have it on the record that I thought it was wrong.
Oh, and cover your breasts if, and only IF, somebody asks you. Yes, they could look away. But kids may not, so just do it. Then I won't get to wondering why you are having more kids when you can't feed the ones you do have. If you don't rub my nose in it, I may not notice.
cptsomethingsomenumber asked me one time why I bother posting this crap on a message board in the middle of nowhere that nobody will read. I think maybe it's just venting, just getting it out so I can get on with it. It isn't good to let things fester. Do I think it will make any difference whatsoever? Nope. Will anyone change their thinking? No, probably not.
Let me put some numbers on "free lunch." In my case, I got a refund this year of less than $300. After I paid HRBlock for the online filing, less than $200. They kept about $10k. I try to not put in much more than I will owe, don't want the gov't getting all happy with my money. I don't make triple figures. I don't make THAT much more than the free lunch eligigle people. I'm not in the 1%. Plus, I was kinda expecting more of a refund this year because I moved and donated over $5k to charities. (I highly recommend AADD.org, good organization as far as I can tell.) The only reason I didn't have to pay thousands more at the end of the year is that I paid an astronomical amount in insurance premiums and copays. Those costs were huge enough that the standard deduction was less than the itemized deducation. Scary, I know.
The way I see it, only about half of working adults pay income taxes. The other half get a "refund" of more than they contributed. If the other half paid, I would only have had to contribute about $5k (income tax, keep in mind I pay all the other taxes everybody else pays). My car is six years old and I will need another one soon. Will I buy one? Hell.No. Mine is paid off and I'll just keep nursing it along until it drops because I'm afraid to increase my monthly expenses. And I really wanted to take my family to the new Harry Potter at Universal. We saw the other one and we really, really, really wanted to see the new one. But I couldn't.
Now if you REALLY need something, I will definitely help. Anybody who actually knows me knows they can call day or night and I will help them or a friend or a friend of a friend. But damn, if you don't REALLY need something, you are kinda screwing over me and my kids. Yes, I know other people will just use that benefit if you don't so you might as well. I truly believe that, too. I just get kinda sick of the constant and uncontrolled benefits with no end in sight. Because that doesn't leave me and my family much to look forward to but more of the same.
I was offered more classes, a chance to make more bank outside of my salary. In the past I would have jumped at the chance. I was the extra-shift, two-or-more-job girl. Not now. Now it isn't worth for me to spend less time with my kids and more time earning money for somebody else. Because if you are over 150% of the poverty level and NOT rich, you get screwed when you earn more. They just take most of it and I end up tired and a little put out by it. So now I am less motivated like the people who take what they don't need. And we are all a little worse off.
Am I an a-hole for this? I don't think so. I am just the one willing to say it out loud because it is sinking in to me that it will never change. So I might as well just say it, have it on the record that I thought it was wrong.
Oh, and cover your breasts if, and only IF, somebody asks you. Yes, they could look away. But kids may not, so just do it. Then I won't get to wondering why you are having more kids when you can't feed the ones you do have. If you don't rub my nose in it, I may not notice.
It's like people are brainwashed now. Most people would have NEVER taken something they didn't need when the churches did charity. But now that's it's "the government" giving the benies, it's okay.
If everybody had to pay a little something no matter how impoverished they are, they would have a more realistic view of where government money comes from in the real world.
Tax reform may be the only answer. I'm not sure a Republican in office and a Republican House and Senate could even fix this. It has to come from the people. We are all going to have to pitch in.
And stop the ACA so companies will hire again. That will help with those who want to work. So many have already given up...
If everybody had to pay a little something no matter how impoverished they are, they would have a more realistic view of where government money comes from in the real world.
Tax reform may be the only answer. I'm not sure a Republican in office and a Republican House and Senate could even fix this. It has to come from the people. We are all going to have to pitch in.
And stop the ACA so companies will hire again. That will help with those who want to work. So many have already given up...
deewee
Pursuit Driver
At one time I would've been someone who'd refused to allow our kids to eat on a summer program. I certainly made sacrifices to make sure they, and my husband, ate well for supper (while I'd eat a cheese sandwich, or ramen noodles, to make sure they ate meat and veggies. I don't apologize for allowing them to do this. I didn't look up the program to try to get help. Another kid told them about it, they went and talked to the lady and she said they were more than welcome to eat there. Now, this is not the norm for us, or the kids. But srsly, we were having a hard time supporting them at our house the whole summer, while paying child support, and feeding ourselves. I don't apologize for us allowing this, and when we had food in the house for them to have lunch, they didn't go to the community center.
The most important thing for us was that they ate a decent (usually) lunch when they needed it, were happy, and had a good summer staying with us before they had to go back home to their mom's a week ago.
The most important thing for us was that they ate a decent (usually) lunch when they needed it, were happy, and had a good summer staying with us before they had to go back home to their mom's a week ago.
No, you're absolutely not an A-hole about it and have every right to your opinion, to heck with what others may think about it. I find your comments regarding the amount of taxes you paid as well as your attitude towards spending more time with your family rather than earning extra income (thus paying more tax for others) very interesting. I think you hit the nail on the head there, I feel we're not long away from many "working class" people (me and most others I know) from reaching that point. Sooner or later those who are working to support others through tax robbery will make the same decision. There will eventually come a time where the desire to work 18 hours per day to make more money will finally change, priorities will shift. When the tax base erodes is when the walls will finally begin to tumble. We may not agree on topics here but I will always respect your views, and please don't allow anything I may post offend you either. Sometimes I post very little, other times I dive in and type a lot of none-sense. None of my input is supported by science or facts, it's mostly just pure opinion based on years of experience and observation.
LisaC
I'm here to spin the moral compass.
You're not being an arse about it. My perspective is a little different, that's all. But, for me, this area is a little sensitive because I lived in poverty as a kid, but most of y'all know that. That being said, I can readily say that if there had been a free summer lunch program anywhere around us, even as kids, we (the kids) would have sought it out. It sucks being really hungry and I do not wish that on any child, regardless of what the parents choose to do with the money.
As for how I donate - one of the places we donate regularly to is the food ministry at our church. I also help out there from time to time (and we take the princess along with us). In working there, I have absolutely seen families come there every week even that likely don't need the help. HOWEVER, there are also some very needy families that come every week because they do need it. The good that the our ministry is able to do for those folks far outweighs the bad. My God has taught me that even if I have to feed ten people who can afford to feed themselves just so I can make sure the one person who can't afford it will have something to eat, I will do it without regret. That doesn't mean I don't get a little frustrated on occasion, but I only have to see one hungry family and I remember that I was there once.
Now, if there are free back to school events, we always donate supplies. I choose not to worry about whether the child that gets the supplies is really in need or not, because I know there are needy kids out there. If people don't donate, there is no chance for those really in need to get them. However, if we do donate, the right kids will at least have a chance. I do not take the princess to these events unless we are helping (she enjoys helping folks and I want to continue to encourage that). However, if a store is having a back to school or other event and they are providing something "free" to folks who shop there, I do take advantage of those (generally because they aren't really free by the time you get me out of the store).
Government programs fall into a different category for me, but this post is long enough. lol
As for how I donate - one of the places we donate regularly to is the food ministry at our church. I also help out there from time to time (and we take the princess along with us). In working there, I have absolutely seen families come there every week even that likely don't need the help. HOWEVER, there are also some very needy families that come every week because they do need it. The good that the our ministry is able to do for those folks far outweighs the bad. My God has taught me that even if I have to feed ten people who can afford to feed themselves just so I can make sure the one person who can't afford it will have something to eat, I will do it without regret. That doesn't mean I don't get a little frustrated on occasion, but I only have to see one hungry family and I remember that I was there once.
Now, if there are free back to school events, we always donate supplies. I choose not to worry about whether the child that gets the supplies is really in need or not, because I know there are needy kids out there. If people don't donate, there is no chance for those really in need to get them. However, if we do donate, the right kids will at least have a chance. I do not take the princess to these events unless we are helping (she enjoys helping folks and I want to continue to encourage that). However, if a store is having a back to school or other event and they are providing something "free" to folks who shop there, I do take advantage of those (generally because they aren't really free by the time you get me out of the store).
Government programs fall into a different category for me, but this post is long enough. lol
honeybunny
Pursuit Driver
Found this handy dandy chart, thought I would pass it along :
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/americans-got-2-trillion-benefits-federal-government-2013
:cantbelievemyeyes
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/americans-got-2-trillion-benefits-federal-government-2013
:cantbelievemyeyes
ShoeDiva
Shoes!!!!
Madea said:LisaC said:
We didn't during the Great Depression. Folks took care of each other. Our attitude has certainly changed.
Did they? I really do not remember reading that people took care of one another. Of course it has been awhile and I remember reading about the New Deal, people malnourished, children out of schools, teens riding the rail and the dust bowl, etc, but not that. Do you have a reference I can read? (or point me in the right direction) I think reading up on that would be a good thing. (I will google, but I know that will bring up a billion websites on the Great Depression and not necessarily the issue I am looking to read.)
Madea
zip a dee doo dah
ShoeDiva said:Madea said:LisaC said:
We didn't during the Great Depression. Folks took care of each other. Our attitude has certainly changed.
Did they? I really do not remember reading that people took care of one another. Of course it has been awhile and I remember reading about the New Deal, people malnourished, children out of schools, teens riding the rail and the dust bowl, etc, but not that. Do you have a reference I can read? (or point me in the right direction) I think reading up on that would be a good thing. (I will google, but I know that will bring up a billion websites on the Great Depression and not necessarily the issue I am looking to read.)
Well, I could suggest either of my Grandmothers, but they are no longer living. I've been told directly the stories of neighbors helping neighbors. Haven't you? My grandmother stated that "out on the mountain" they would have all starved if they didn't help each other during that time.