Suicide

[Grey Colson]

I wouldn't "ding" anyone for their belief on this subject, but I've met a few Christians over the years who believe that, even as a Christian, a person will not go to Heaven if they commit suicide.

My FIL is one of those who believe that is true. Me, I've never believed that is the case and I don't recall any such reference in the Bible.

My FIL and I didn't argue the point at all. I just asked if he knew what I thought was worse than killing yourself. He asked what that was. I replied, "Killing someone else".

Speaking for myself, I've never been depressed or upset enough to consider the act...however I have been upset enough to semi-understand why someone could become SO depressed and/or upset to do it. I feel very badly for those who have done so and at least one person in my family did years ago.

If you believe a person can literally lose their salvation and not go to Heaven for committing suicide, I am curious what that belief is based on. I suspect some base it on the obvious inability to ask for forgiveness for the act, but that flies in the face of your sins, past and present, being forgiven at the Cross.

What'cha think? :dunno

 

[J-man]

If memory serves me correctly there is only one unpardonable sin so, no, I don't believe you lose your salvation over it. However, I do think it's a very sad subject and do not judge others for any differing belief.

 

[Grey Colson]

If memory serves me correctly there is only one unpardonable sin so, no, I don't believe you lose your salvation over it. However, I do think it's a very sad subject and do not judge others for any differing belief.

Someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

 

[mei lan]

No, they wouldn't lose their salvation. John 10:28 says that nothing can take us out of the Lord's hand. Another way of putting it is that salvation is by grace, not by works (Ephesians 2:8-10). If we didn't do anything to gain our salvation, how can we do anything to lose it?

If anything, I should think the Father would be more compassionate and understanding of a person who was in such desperate pain as to take his/her own life. He knows how frail we are, and He walked this earth so he knows of the things that can weigh us down.

 

[stradial]

I have a very hard time thinking that God, who as I understand it, is pure love, would punish someone who is in so much mental and emotional pain that they can see no other course but to end their own life, by condemning them to eternal damnation.
However, if that is what you believe, I would never say you are wrong, since religious beliefs are a personal thing.

 

[deewee]

Psalm 103:13-14

 

[LisaC]

If memory serves me correctly there is only one unpardonable sin so, no, I don't believe you lose your salvation over it. However, I do think it's a very sad subject and do not judge others for any differing belief.

Someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

:thumbsup :thumbsup You are correct.

 

[Grey Colson]

No, they wouldn't lose their salvation. John 10:28 says that nothing can take us out of the Lord's hand. Another way of putting it is that salvation is by grace, not by works (Ephesians 2:8-10). If we didn't do anything to gain our salvation, how can we do anything to lose it?

If anything, I should think the Father would be more compassionate and understanding of a person who was in such desperate pain as to take his/her own life. He knows how frail we are, and He walked this earth so he knows of the things that can weigh us down.

Agreed, dear lady :thumbsup

 

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

Everything in the bible is open to each persons, religions, faith to interpret. That is why there are so many different domination's. Ones interpretation is not right or wrong over anothers, but different than yours. A conversation and point stated numerous times on this board. (not directed at you, just in general)

 

[Grey Colson]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

Everything in the bible is open to each persons, religions, faith to interpret. That is why there are so many different domination's. Ones interpretation is not right or wrong over anothers, but different than yours. A conversation and point stated numerous times on this board. (not directed at you, just in general)

With all due respect, I would suggest most things in the Bible are quite clear and not left to an individuals interpretation to fit their personal leanings.

When Ruth went to the well with a pitcher, it really doesn't mean she was sneaking around with a major league baseball player :laugh

 

[Madea]

I make no judgments on suicide whatsoever. I have no way to determine the condition of one's heart at that moment in their life. I don't pass judgment on whether or not one is a Christian or not. If they say they are, who am I to say they aren't.

One of the things that I've heard mentioned by those who do believe that those who commit suicide may not enter heaven is that the Bible tells us "thou shalt not kill". You can argue for or against that one, I'm not.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

Everything in the bible is open to each persons, religions, faith to interpret. That is why there are so many different domination's. Ones interpretation is not right or wrong over anothers, but different than yours. A conversation and point stated numerous times on this board. (not directed at you, just in general)

With all due respect, I would suggest most things in the Bible are quite clear and not left to an individuals interpretation to fit their personal leanings.

When Ruth went to the well with a pitcher, it really doesn't mean she was sneaking around with a major league baseball player :laugh

I am sorry, but how do you explain all the different teachings? It is because of how some people, some faith's, and some religions interpret the bible. Theologists can also not agree on every verse, and they are educated far more than you and I in doing so. It is not always the same clarity to all that are reading.

You have been taught a certain way, interpret things a certain way, and that is not wrong, but others have been taught and interpret things another way and I do not believe they are wrong either.

You say you are not "dinging" anyone's beliefs, but when you state that some are just interpreting something by their leanings you are. That is not what most are doing, they are believing how they are taught and what their faith believes.
There are many verses that you and I would not see the same way because we are of different faiths.

 

[Guard Dad]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

Everything in the bible is open to each persons, religions, faith to interpret. That is why there are so many different domination's. Ones interpretation is not right or wrong over anothers, but different than yours. A conversation and point stated numerous times on this board. (not directed at you, just in general)

With all due respect, I would suggest most things in the Bible are quite clear and not left to an individuals interpretation to fit their personal leanings.

When Ruth went to the well with a pitcher, it really doesn't mean she was sneaking around with a major league baseball player :laugh

I am sorry, but how do you explain all the different teachings? It is because of how some people, some faith's, and some religions interpret the bible. Theologists can also not agree on every verse, and they are educated far more than you and I in doing so. It is not always the same clarity to all that are reading.

You have been taught a certain way, interpret things a certain way, and that is not wrong, but others have been taught and interpret things another way and I do not believe they are wrong either.

You say you are not "dinging" anyone's beliefs, but when you state that some are just interpreting something by their leanings you are. That is not what most are doing, they are believing how they are taught and what their faith believes.
There are many verses that you and I would not see the same way because we are of different faiths.

Just ask me, I know it all.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

Everything in the bible is open to each persons, religions, faith to interpret. That is why there are so many different domination's. Ones interpretation is not right or wrong over anothers, but different than yours. A conversation and point stated numerous times on this board. (not directed at you, just in general)

With all due respect, I would suggest most things in the Bible are quite clear and not left to an individuals interpretation to fit their personal leanings.

When Ruth went to the well with a pitcher, it really doesn't mean she was sneaking around with a major league baseball player :laugh

I am sorry, but how do you explain all the different teachings? It is because of how some people, some faith's, and some religions interpret the bible. Theologists can also not agree on every verse, and they are educated far more than you and I in doing so. It is not always the same clarity to all that are reading.

You have been taught a certain way, interpret things a certain way, and that is not wrong, but others have been taught and interpret things another way and I do not believe they are wrong either.

You say you are not "dinging" anyone's beliefs, but when you state that some are just interpreting something by their leanings you are. That is not what most are doing, they are believing how they are taught and what their faith believes.
There are many verses that you and I would not see the same way because we are of different faiths.

Just ask me, I know it all.

:spitchick We know you think that! :taunt

 

[Grey Colson]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

Everything in the bible is open to each persons, religions, faith to interpret. That is why there are so many different domination's. Ones interpretation is not right or wrong over anothers, but different than yours. A conversation and point stated numerous times on this board. (not directed at you, just in general)

With all due respect, I would suggest most things in the Bible are quite clear and not left to an individuals interpretation to fit their personal leanings.

When Ruth went to the well with a pitcher, it really doesn't mean she was sneaking around with a major league baseball player :laugh

I am sorry, but how do you explain all the different teachings? It is because of how some people, some faith's, and some religions interpret the bible. Theologists can also not agree on every verse, and they are educated far more than you and I in doing so. It is not always the same clarity to all that are reading.

You have been taught a certain way, interpret things a certain way, and that is not wrong, but others have been taught and interpret things another way and I do not believe they are wrong either.

You say you are not "dinging" anyone's beliefs, but when you state that some are just interpreting something by their leanings you are. That is not what most are doing, they are believing how they are taught and what their faith believes.
There are many verses that you and I would not see the same way because we are of different faiths.

In your previous post you typed "everything in the Bible". If you don't agree with something, you are not "dinging" them all the time. As I mentioned in my first post, my FIL and I talked about it, but it was a good discussion, not a "ding" session. An example of dinging someone is calling them a moron for no reason.

John 3:16? The verses used in the Roman Road used to witness to the lost? How else can they be interpreted?

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father, but by me." What other meaning does that have?

If God spoke through his authors to pen the Bible and everything in it is up to individual interpretation, I have no use for the book. There would be no clear direction in any issue to have a clue as to how God wants us to conduct our lives.

"Thou shalt no commit adultery"?

"Thou shalt not have any other gods before me"?

"Blessed is the nation who's God is the Lord."

If we have to wonder if God really means what He says and everything is a mish-mash to be organized into a hundred thousand different versions, we're ALL screwed up.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

Everything in the bible is open to each persons, religions, faith to interpret. That is why there are so many different domination's. Ones interpretation is not right or wrong over anothers, but different than yours. A conversation and point stated numerous times on this board. (not directed at you, just in general)

With all due respect, I would suggest most things in the Bible are quite clear and not left to an individuals interpretation to fit their personal leanings.

When Ruth went to the well with a pitcher, it really doesn't mean she was sneaking around with a major league baseball player :laugh

I am sorry, but how do you explain all the different teachings? It is because of how some people, some faith's, and some religions interpret the bible. Theologists can also not agree on every verse, and they are educated far more than you and I in doing so. It is not always the same clarity to all that are reading.

You have been taught a certain way, interpret things a certain way, and that is not wrong, but others have been taught and interpret things another way and I do not believe they are wrong either.

You say you are not "dinging" anyone's beliefs, but when you state that some are just interpreting something by their leanings you are. That is not what most are doing, they are believing how they are taught and what their faith believes.
There are many verses that you and I would not see the same way because we are of different faiths.

In your previous post you typed "everything in the Bible". If you don't agree with something, you are not "dinging" them all the time. As I mentioned in my first post, my FIL and I talked about it, but it was a good discussion, not a "ding" session. An example of dinging someone is calling them a moron for no reason.

John 3:16? The verses used in the Roman Road used to witness to the lost? How else can they be interpreted?

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father, but by me." What other meaning does that have?

If God spoke through his authors to pen the Bible and everything in it is up to individual interpretation, I have no use for the book. There would be no clear direction in any issue to have a clue as to how God wants us to conduct our lives.

"Thou shalt no commit adultery"?

"Thou shalt not have any other gods before me"?

"Blessed is the nation who's God is the Lord."

If we have to wonder if God really means what He says and everything is a mish-mash to be organized into a hundred thousand different versions, we're ALL screwed up.

So your interpretation of dinging is different than mine? :taunt

I am sure God did mean when he said, but do you know exactly what he means or is it what you think those words mean, mixed in with what you were taught and in actuality if you go back, the translations of what some of those words meant then verses now, or words we do not even know which meaning was meant. :dunno

Seriously though let's use MANY verses in the Bible are open to interpretation and theologists agree with that fact. ;D

I believe that your relationship with God is yours and not one person, religion, or faith is completely right.

 

[stradial]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

Everything in the bible is open to each persons, religions, faith to interpret. That is why there are so many different domination's. Ones interpretation is not right or wrong over anothers, but different than yours. A conversation and point stated numerous times on this board. (not directed at you, just in general)

With all due respect, I would suggest most things in the Bible are quite clear and not left to an individuals interpretation to fit their personal leanings.

When Ruth went to the well with a pitcher, it really doesn't mean she was sneaking around with a major league baseball player :laugh

If that was true, then there wouldn't be so many religions and people who see the same passages differently.
It may should be true, but in my experience it isn't.
All that said, there are some things in there that sure seem like they oughta be clear.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I'd like to see a verse that tells me that those who commit suicide don't get to Heaven. If there isn't a verse, it's just people trying to interpret the Bible.

Everything in the bible is open to each persons, religions, faith to interpret. That is why there are so many different domination's. Ones interpretation is not right or wrong over anothers, but different than yours. A conversation and point stated numerous times on this board. (not directed at you, just in general)

With all due respect, I would suggest most things in the Bible are quite clear and not left to an individuals interpretation to fit their personal leanings.

When Ruth went to the well with a pitcher, it really doesn't mean she was sneaking around with a major league baseball player :laugh

If that was true, then there wouldn't be so many religions and people who see the same passages differently.
It may should be true, but in my experience it isn't.
All that said, there are some things in there that sure seem like they oughta be clear.

Exactly.

I do believe there are verses that everyone agrees with, but so many can be explained in many ways and that is where differences in religion comes into play. I could not even tell you how many times I have said just on this board that interpretation of something, whether it be a verse or even a statement someone made can be interpreted many ways.

 

[naturegirl]

My sister committed suicide in 1990, I have no doubt she is with the Lord. She was lost and struggling, trying to find the answers to things she had no control of. But she was right with God, I have no doubt. No he most certainly would not allow her to suffer any longer, she endured so much while she was on this earth.

I find it so very sad people decide to make a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It's something I don't have the courage to do. Many people say it's selfish, I assure you the person that takes their own life is not being selfish, they are in such horrible pain emotionally they see no other way. They just want it to stop.

It's sort of like being caught in a bear trap in the woods with no help, the pain is excruciating, there is no relief and no help. That's how their hearts and minds feel. My sister and I spent hours and hours talking about this, she had attempted suicide the first time when she was 15. I knew eventually that's how her life would end. I tried everything I could to stop her but in the end, she saw no other way out. She just wanted "it" to stop.