S/O

[Guard Dad]

Scripture from another thread...

Woe to those who are wise in their OWN eyes and clever in their OWN sight. Isaiah 5:21

Question #1:

Where is that line crossed? Pastors share their wisdom of the Bible, some of us do as well. Is the line crossed only when our OWN wisdom and cleverness is incorrect?

Question #2:

It has been suggested that these discussions are harmful to God's Kingdom. I would submit that so long as they are sincere in nature, they are actually good because we can learn from others who have better understanding of God's word. I liken them to a discussion in Sunday School. Admittedly, some here have a better understanding of God's word than I do, and I am open to learning of being corrected. Hopefully, all Christians are.

What are your thoughts? Discuss?

 

[LisaC]

Scripture from another thread...

Woe to those who are wise in their OWN eyes and clever in their OWN sight. Isaiah 5:21

Question #1:

Where is that line crossed? Pastors share their wisdom of the Bible, some of us do as well. Is the line crossed only when our OWN wisdom and cleverness is incorrect?

Question #2:

It has been suggested that these discussions are harmful to God's Kingdom. I would submit that so long as they are sincere in nature, they are actually good because we can learn from others who have better understanding of God's word. I liken them to a discussion in Sunday School. Admittedly, some here have a better understanding of God's word than I do, and I am open to learning of being corrected. Hopefully, all Christians are.

What are your thoughts? Discuss?

1. I think the line is crossed at the very moment that you feel like your opinion holds a greater value that another person's. I know that in some people's eyes I probably push that line from time to time and there are times when I do cross it, I am human. And, it's usually when I have very strong feelings about something - like abortion or how other people are treated. For the most part here, I will push (and sometimes adjust) my comments to keep the conversation going or to take it in another direction with the intent of keeping an interesting discussion going (and yes, sometimes just to push a few buttons). BUT, there are also other people here who are just as guilty as I, whether they will admit it or not. I do think that is what keeps this place interesting. Nothing is worse than being with a group of people that agree on everything all of the time - that's boring!

I also think there are a lot of times, especially in church, where people feel like they know so much about scripture that if you don't interpret it their way, you are wrong. The Bible is the living word of God - what a scripture says to me, may say something else to Diva or IF - that's the great thing about it!


2. Obviously, I don't think these discussions are harmful to God's kingdom.

 

[Sadie612]

I believe what I believe..you believe what you believe.. lets just hush, hug and get along lol

This is true in religion and politics to some.... I will not argue to the point of frustration or to the point where it hurts my witness to anyone

 

[Madea]

"Some people won't let the Bible get in the way of what they believe"

~Andrew Wommack

 

[ShoeDiva]

"Some people won't let the Bible get in the way of what they believe"

~Andrew Wommack

I do not like that quote because different religions believe different things and they all use the same bible. (okay some of us might have extra, but you get what I mean)

To GD: I do not think discussions hurt. I am not quite sure why anyone feels that way. I know my intent when I discuss is not to change their thought, but to make them think that there could be another thought on a subject. I do not believe that with something as complex as the bible that one person or one religion could have all the perfect answers. I would be willing to bet that we could all come up with different answers and meanings for almost any piece of scripture. I do not see that as a bad thing and many times I have been able to learn more or apply what I believed to anothers thought on the same scripture and get a better understanding.

 

[Grey Colson]

1. God obviously gave us the ability to speak, or in the case of the internet, communicate, so I don't think the line is crossed when people speak from their heart and what they have read in God's word. We would not be able to be a witness if we kept our mouths shut. I'm certain most will recall the scripture that says the rocks will cry out if we remain silent.

2. No 8)

 

[Guard Dad]

"Some people won't let the Bible get in the way of what they believe"

~Andrew Wommack

I do not like that quote because different religions believe different things and they all use the same bible. (okay some of us might have extra, but you get what I mean)

To GD: I do not think discussions hurt. I am not quite sure why anyone feels that way. I know my intent when I discuss is not to change their thought, but to make them think that there could be another thought on a subject. I do not believe that with something as complex as the bible that one person or one religion could have all the perfect answers. I would be willing to bet that we could all come up with different answers and meanings for almost any piece of scripture. I do not see that as a bad thing and many times I have been able to learn more or apply what I believed to anothers thought on the same scripture and get a better understanding.

I don't think analyzing scripture is a bad thing so long as our sincere intent is to find the true meaning of God's word. Some (not any of us regulars, I think) would do so to try and pervert, disprove, or justify sin. I've ran into that bunch many times.

Honest question, Deever--When you mention "different religions", do mean different denominations of Christianity, or different as in Muslim, Hindu, etc? I ask because I'm struggling to understand your meaning there.

I do agree than no single brand of Christianity has it completely right. I am a Baptist, but I do differ with the rank and fold on some things. I am Christian first; denomination is well down the line in priority.

 

[Guard Dad]

1. God obviously gave us the ability to speak, or in the case of the internet, communicate, so I don't think the line is crossed when people speak from their heart and what they have read in God's word. We would not be able to be a witness if we kept our mouths shut. I'm certain most will recall the scripture that says the rocks will cry out if we remain silent.

This is getting to the heart of what I was thinking. I suspect the scripture is referring to people who are, as we say, talking out of their butts. In other words, claiming the Bible says something when they haven't taken the time to read it and do the research to support their claims. Or false prophets, to use another term.

If you have studied your Bible and are confident that you know it's meaning on a subject, is it wrong to be bold in stating it?

 

[LisaC]

1. God obviously gave us the ability to speak, or in the case of the internet, communicate, so I don't think the line is crossed when people speak from their heart and what they have read in God's word. We would not be able to be a witness if we kept our mouths shut. I'm certain most will recall the scripture that says the rocks will cry out if we remain silent.

This is getting to the heart of what I was thinking. I suspect the scripture is referring to people who are, as we say, talking out of their butts. In other words, claiming the Bible says something when they haven't taken the time to read it and do the research to support their claims. Or false prophets, to use another term.

If you have studied your Bible and are confident that you know it's meaning on a subject, is it wrong to be bold in stating it?

I think there is a time and place for everything. If you truly approach someone with the right heart, you will accomplish a lot more than you will if you try to shove scripture down someone's throat (like "homosexuality is an abomination").

However, I think the better question would be if you have studied your Bible and are confident in it's meaning, does that make someone else's interpretation of that same scripture wrong?

 

[I'm Floored]

1. God obviously gave us the ability to speak, or in the case of the internet, communicate, so I don't think the line is crossed when people speak from their heart and what they have read in God's word. We would not be able to be a witness if we kept our mouths shut. I'm certain most will recall the scripture that says the rocks will cry out if we remain silent.

This is getting to the heart of what I was thinking. I suspect the scripture is referring to people who are, as we say, talking out of their butts. In other words, claiming the Bible says something when they haven't taken the time to read it and do the research to support their claims. Or false prophets, to use another term.

If you have studied your Bible and are confident that you know it's meaning on a subject, is it wrong to be bold in stating it?

I think there is a time and place for everything. If you truly approach someone with the right heart, you will accomplish a lot more than you will if you try to shove scripture down someone's throat (like "homosexuality is an abomination").

However, I think the better question would be if you have studied your Bible and are confident in it's meaning, does that make someone else's interpretation of that same scripture wrong?

Serious question here:

Are you (or anyone you feel you may be speaking for) as offended by what I stated when I said, "The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination"?

The reason I ask is that I feel many people are "offended" because they feel others are judging them. For me, it makes no difference what I believe myself. For Christians, we don't "make the rules." We look to Scripture to define them.

Does that make sense?

 

[Guard Dad]

1. God obviously gave us the ability to speak, or in the case of the internet, communicate, so I don't think the line is crossed when people speak from their heart and what they have read in God's word. We would not be able to be a witness if we kept our mouths shut. I'm certain most will recall the scripture that says the rocks will cry out if we remain silent.

This is getting to the heart of what I was thinking. I suspect the scripture is referring to people who are, as we say, talking out of their butts. In other words, claiming the Bible says something when they haven't taken the time to read it and do the research to support their claims. Or false prophets, to use another term.

If you have studied your Bible and are confident that you know it's meaning on a subject, is it wrong to be bold in stating it?

I think there is a time and place for everything. If you truly approach someone with the right heart, you will accomplish a lot more than you will if you try to shove scripture down someone's throat (like "homosexuality is an abomination").

However, I think the better question would be if you have studied your Bible and are confident in it's meaning, does that make someone else's interpretation of that same scripture wrong?

Statements like "homosexuality is an abomination" is only effective in discussions with other Christians. If you use that rationale on a non-Christian, it does no good because God's will is probably not important to them. This is why I rarely argue the Biblical side of things when in a discussion involving non-Christians; it can do more harm than good to beat them over the head with my Bible.

 

[I'm Floored]

Statements like "homosexuality is an abomination" is only effective in discussions with other Christians. If you use that rationale on a non-Christian, it does no good because God's will is probably not important to them. This is why I rarely argue the Biblical side of things when in a discussion involving non-Christians; it can do more harm than good to beat them over the head with my Bible.

:agreed

 

[LisaC]

1. God obviously gave us the ability to speak, or in the case of the internet, communicate, so I don't think the line is crossed when people speak from their heart and what they have read in God's word. We would not be able to be a witness if we kept our mouths shut. I'm certain most will recall the scripture that says the rocks will cry out if we remain silent.

This is getting to the heart of what I was thinking. I suspect the scripture is referring to people who are, as we say, talking out of their butts. In other words, claiming the Bible says something when they haven't taken the time to read it and do the research to support their claims. Or false prophets, to use another term.

If you have studied your Bible and are confident that you know it's meaning on a subject, is it wrong to be bold in stating it?

I think there is a time and place for everything. If you truly approach someone with the right heart, you will accomplish a lot more than you will if you try to shove scripture down someone's throat (like "homosexuality is an abomination").

However, I think the better question would be if you have studied your Bible and are confident in it's meaning, does that make someone else's interpretation of that same scripture wrong?

Serious question here:

Are you (or anyone you feel you may be speaking for) as offended by what I stated when I said, "The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination"?

The reason I ask is that I feel many people are "offended" because they feel others are judging them. For me, it makes no difference what I believe myself. For Christians, we don't "make the rules." We look to Scripture to define them.

Does that make sense?

I see what you're saying, but, as I said, there is a time and a place for everything. If you are saying that in a room full of heterosexual Christians, it's not a big deal. But, if you are in the presence of someone who you know is a homosexual or might have a child/family member/close friend that is a homosexual, you have to look at the context within which you are saying it. Are you saying it out of love or in response to a question about what the Bible says? Or, are you saying it so you don't "look like" a homophobe? Or, are you saying that to show your knowledge of scripture?

If we, as Christians, are doing what we are told to do ("go forth and make disciples"), then we have to do it in love. A friend (who is gay) told me once that telling a homosexual that his lifestyle is an abomination is not teaching anyone about the love of Christ - it is showing them that we will judge them first and that if they want to change their lifestyle, they can be a Christian too. That's not what I want to do - I believe that if we teach people about Jesus and how He has transformed our lives, the Holy Spirit will take care of convicting them of their sin.

 

[ShoeDiva]

"Some people won't let the Bible get in the way of what they believe"

~Andrew Wommack

I do not like that quote because different religions believe different things and they all use the same bible. (okay some of us might have extra, but you get what I mean)

To GD: I do not think discussions hurt. I am not quite sure why anyone feels that way. I know my intent when I discuss is not to change their thought, but to make them think that there could be another thought on a subject. I do not believe that with something as complex as the bible that one person or one religion could have all the perfect answers. I would be willing to bet that we could all come up with different answers and meanings for almost any piece of scripture. I do not see that as a bad thing and many times I have been able to learn more or apply what I believed to anothers thought on the same scripture and get a better understanding.

I don't think analyzing scripture is a bad thing so long as our sincere intent is to find the true meaning of God's word. Some (not any of us regulars, I think) would do so to try and pervert, disprove, or justify sin. I've ran into that bunch many times.

Honest question, Deever--When you mention "different religions", do mean different denominations of Christianity, or different as in Muslim, Hindu, etc? I ask because I'm struggling to understand your meaning there.

I do agree than no single brand of Christianity has it completely right. I am a Baptist, but I do differ with the rank and fold on some things. I am Christian first; denomination is well down the line in priority.

I do mean all, as in different denominations and anyone else that uses a bible. As I said in another topic I have even been told here that I am wrong and the scripture interpretation that I used was not what it meant. (One was in explanation, once it was general conversation I believe.) Not a big deal now or then, but that is still the point I am making. I am Catholic the others were Baptist and flat out two different meanings from passages. Are they right, maybe. Am I, maybe. I am willing to listen to others though and realize my interpretation (or churches) or theirs could be wrong and something else was meant.

 

[Guard Dad]

"Some people won't let the Bible get in the way of what they believe"

~Andrew Wommack

I do not like that quote because different religions believe different things and they all use the same bible. (okay some of us might have extra, but you get what I mean)

To GD: I do not think discussions hurt. I am not quite sure why anyone feels that way. I know my intent when I discuss is not to change their thought, but to make them think that there could be another thought on a subject. I do not believe that with something as complex as the bible that one person or one religion could have all the perfect answers. I would be willing to bet that we could all come up with different answers and meanings for almost any piece of scripture. I do not see that as a bad thing and many times I have been able to learn more or apply what I believed to anothers thought on the same scripture and get a better understanding.

I don't think analyzing scripture is a bad thing so long as our sincere intent is to find the true meaning of God's word. Some (not any of us regulars, I think) would do so to try and pervert, disprove, or justify sin. I've ran into that bunch many times.

Honest question, Deever--When you mention "different religions", do mean different denominations of Christianity, or different as in Muslim, Hindu, etc? I ask because I'm struggling to understand your meaning there.

I do agree than no single brand of Christianity has it completely right. I am a Baptist, but I do differ with the rank and fold on some things. I am Christian first; denomination is well down the line in priority.

I do mean all, as in different denominations and anyone else that uses a bible. As I said in another topic I have even been told here that I am wrong and the scripture interpretation that I used was not what it meant. (One was in explanation, once it was general conversation I believe.) Not a big deal now or then, but that is still the point I am making. I am Catholic the others were Baptist and flat out two different meanings from passages. Are they right, maybe. Am I, maybe. I am willing to listen to others though and realize my interpretation (or churches) or theirs could be wrong and something else was meant.

Well, Catholics and Protestants are both Christian. I know there are some small differences in beliefs and styles of worship; but I would think we'd be in agreement on the big stuff. Homosexuality for example; it seems to me that The Bible is pretty clear on it. Do you agree that it is sinful?

As for totally different religions like Islam or Hindu, for example; their beliefs really don't matter to me or factor into my sense of right and wrong.

 

[Guard Dad]

1. God obviously gave us the ability to speak, or in the case of the internet, communicate, so I don't think the line is crossed when people speak from their heart and what they have read in God's word. We would not be able to be a witness if we kept our mouths shut. I'm certain most will recall the scripture that says the rocks will cry out if we remain silent.

This is getting to the heart of what I was thinking. I suspect the scripture is referring to people who are, as we say, talking out of their butts. In other words, claiming the Bible says something when they haven't taken the time to read it and do the research to support their claims. Or false prophets, to use another term.

If you have studied your Bible and are confident that you know it's meaning on a subject, is it wrong to be bold in stating it?

I think there is a time and place for everything. If you truly approach someone with the right heart, you will accomplish a lot more than you will if you try to shove scripture down someone's throat (like "homosexuality is an abomination").

However, I think the better question would be if you have studied your Bible and are confident in it's meaning, does that make someone else's interpretation of that same scripture wrong?

Serious question here:

Are you (or anyone you feel you may be speaking for) as offended by what I stated when I said, "The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination"?

The reason I ask is that I feel many people are "offended" because they feel others are judging them. For me, it makes no difference what I believe myself. For Christians, we don't "make the rules." We look to Scripture to define them.

Does that make sense?

I see what you're saying, but, as I said, there is a time and a place for everything. If you are saying that in a room full of heterosexual Christians, it's not a big deal. But, if you are in the presence of someone who you know is a homosexual or might have a child/family member/close friend that is a homosexual, you have to look at the context within which you are saying it. Are you saying it out of love or in response to a question about what the Bible says? Or, are you saying it so you don't "look like" a homophobe? Or, are you saying that to show your knowledge of scripture?

If we, as Christians, are doing what we are told to do ("go forth and make disciples"), then we have to do it in love. A friend (who is gay) told me once that telling a homosexual that his lifestyle is an abomination is not teaching anyone about the love of Christ - it is showing them that we will judge them first and that if they want to change their lifestyle, they can be a Christian too. That's not what I want to do - I believe that if we teach people about Jesus and how He has transformed our lives, the Holy Spirit will take care of convicting them of their sin.

You make a good point, and as I stated above I agree about not beating people over the head with my Bible. We should absolutely show the love of Christ in all we do. However, that does not mean we have to accept or condone what we know to be wrong. I have gay friends that I love, but if they ask me what God thinks about homosexuality I will answer truthfully. But I will include the part about us all being sinners and God loves us just the same.

 

[LisaC]

"Some people won't let the Bible get in the way of what they believe"

~Andrew Wommack

I do not like that quote because different religions believe different things and they all use the same bible. (okay some of us might have extra, but you get what I mean)

To GD: I do not think discussions hurt. I am not quite sure why anyone feels that way. I know my intent when I discuss is not to change their thought, but to make them think that there could be another thought on a subject. I do not believe that with something as complex as the bible that one person or one religion could have all the perfect answers. I would be willing to bet that we could all come up with different answers and meanings for almost any piece of scripture. I do not see that as a bad thing and many times I have been able to learn more or apply what I believed to anothers thought on the same scripture and get a better understanding.

I don't think analyzing scripture is a bad thing so long as our sincere intent is to find the true meaning of God's word. Some (not any of us regulars, I think) would do so to try and pervert, disprove, or justify sin. I've ran into that bunch many times.

Honest question, Deever--When you mention "different religions", do mean different denominations of Christianity, or different as in Muslim, Hindu, etc? I ask because I'm struggling to understand your meaning there.

I do agree than no single brand of Christianity has it completely right. I am a Baptist, but I do differ with the rank and fold on some things. I am Christian first; denomination is well down the line in priority.

I do mean all, as in different denominations and anyone else that uses a bible. As I said in another topic I have even been told here that I am wrong and the scripture interpretation that I used was not what it meant. (One was in explanation, once it was general conversation I believe.) Not a big deal now or then, but that is still the point I am making. I am Catholic the others were Baptist and flat out two different meanings from passages. Are they right, maybe. Am I, maybe. I am willing to listen to others though and realize my interpretation (or churches) or theirs could be wrong and something else was meant.

Well, Catholics and Protestants are both Christian. I know there are some small differences in beliefs and styles of worship; but I would think we'd be in agreement on the big stuff. Homosexuality for example; it seems to me that The Bible is pretty clear on it. Do you agree that it is sinful?

As for totally different religions like Islam or Hindu, for example; their beliefs really don't matter to me or factor into my sense of right and wrong.

Protestants are also varied - does your church believe in dispensationalism or covenant theology? Are you a pre-tribulation believer or a post-tribulation believer? What are the means of salvation, is it predestined? All believe in the infallacy of the Bible, but have some different interpretations in what they specifically believe.

 

[Madea]

Just curious, LisaC, if we were to remove the phrase "homosexuality" and insert the phrase "abortion" in this topic, would your stance be the same?

 

[LisaC]

Just curious, LisaC, if we were to remove the phrase "homosexuality" and insert the phrase "abortion" in this topic, would your stance be the same?

Yes, there is a time and place to discuss my views on abortion too. I work in a very liberal environment and have to bite my tongue until it bleeds at times.

 

[ShoeDiva]

"Some people won't let the Bible get in the way of what they believe"

~Andrew Wommack

I do not like that quote because different religions believe different things and they all use the same bible. (okay some of us might have extra, but you get what I mean)

To GD: I do not think discussions hurt. I am not quite sure why anyone feels that way. I know my intent when I discuss is not to change their thought, but to make them think that there could be another thought on a subject. I do not believe that with something as complex as the bible that one person or one religion could have all the perfect answers. I would be willing to bet that we could all come up with different answers and meanings for almost any piece of scripture. I do not see that as a bad thing and many times I have been able to learn more or apply what I believed to anothers thought on the same scripture and get a better understanding.

I don't think analyzing scripture is a bad thing so long as our sincere intent is to find the true meaning of God's word. Some (not any of us regulars, I think) would do so to try and pervert, disprove, or justify sin. I've ran into that bunch many times.

Honest question, Deever--When you mention "different religions", do mean different denominations of Christianity, or different as in Muslim, Hindu, etc? I ask because I'm struggling to understand your meaning there.

I do agree than no single brand of Christianity has it completely right. I am a Baptist, but I do differ with the rank and fold on some things. I am Christian first; denomination is well down the line in priority.

I do mean all, as in different denominations and anyone else that uses a bible. As I said in another topic I have even been told here that I am wrong and the scripture interpretation that I used was not what it meant. (One was in explanation, once it was general conversation I believe.) Not a big deal now or then, but that is still the point I am making. I am Catholic the others were Baptist and flat out two different meanings from passages. Are they right, maybe. Am I, maybe. I am willing to listen to others though and realize my interpretation (or churches) or theirs could be wrong and something else was meant.

Well, Catholics and Protestants are both Christian. I know there are some small differences in beliefs and styles of worship; but I would think we'd be in agreement on the big stuff. Homosexuality for example; it seems to me that The Bible is pretty clear on it. Do you agree that it is sinful?

As for totally different religions like Islam or Hindu, for example; their beliefs really don't matter to me or factor into my sense of right and wrong.

You would think, but I have done research and there are many that believe it is not. (That darn pesky interpretation) My opinion is not what my point has been. I have said their sin is no more sinful than mine.


Because you are right and they are wrong? :dunno