Joel O.

[Madea]

Maybe Osteen is just the milk. And maybe some of us have moved on to meat and potatoes. And maybe sometimes you need a cold drink of milk even when you are eating meat.

 

[mei lan]

You can talk about Jesus all day long and spread a whole lot of good news, but if you don't tell folks how to get it, then they likely won't. That's what I find disturbing with Osteen - I don't ever recall hearing him actually talking about salvation and how to get it.

Every single week at the end of each sermon he tells how to be saved and leads a prayer of salvation for those who wish to ask Jesus into their hearts and then encourages those to prayed to get involved in a Bible-believing church.

 

[mei lan]

Maybe Osteen is just the milk. And maybe some of us have moved on to meat and potatoes. And maybe sometimes you need a cold drink of milk even when you are eating meat.

Beautifully said, dearest. :love

 

[mei lan]

[quote author=Grey Colson]
The point of this topic really wasn't to bash him. Only that I felt something was amiss about his "sermons". And yes, we watched his broadcasts front to back many times. As deewee mentioned, I never saw him open the Word and preach. I don't believe God gave us his Word as a suggestion, but to speak and preach it. THAT is the only thing that changes hearts and lives. Not what I say, not what you say and not what Joel says.

I do not disagree. But just because he reads a passage off of a typed sheet of paper instead of holding His Bible doesn't mean he isn't basing what he says on Scripture. I have heard a few sermons where I thought he could have given more backup to what he was saying. But he generally has a very good Scriptural basis for what he says, and as I said, I'm picky about that crap. And I say again that I have never heard him say anything in a sermon that was contradictory to what the Bible says.

Deep, no. But theologically unsound? Also no.

I understand and maybe I should have said it's what he doesn't say that seems odd to me. Our pastor is not a stomping around, fire-breathing, hellfire and damnation preacher as some describe other old timers, but he does say without fail that rejecting Christ results in an eternity separated from Him. I just believe it's important to emphasize that to listeners at every opportunity. :dunno
[/quote]

Well, that is a legitimate opinion. But for me personally, I had that thought crammed down my throat to the exclusion of all else when I was growing up. Understanding God's grace and love for me has been incredibly hard for me to do, and esp. on a personal level. So that is one of the things I continue to work on.

I am also reminded of that verse in Romans 2 which says that it is the kindness of the Lord that leads to repentance.

 

[LisaC]

You can talk about Jesus all day long and spread a whole lot of good news, but if you don't tell folks how to get it, then they likely won't. That's what I find disturbing with Osteen - I don't ever recall hearing him actually talking about salvation and how to get it.

Every single week at the end of each sermon he tells how to be saved and leads a prayer of salvation for those who wish to ask Jesus into their hearts and then encourages those to prayed to get involved in a Bible-believing church.

But I've seen televised sermons where this doesn't happen.

 

[Madea]

You can talk about Jesus all day long and spread a whole lot of good news, but if you don't tell folks how to get it, then they likely won't. That's what I find disturbing with Osteen - I don't ever recall hearing him actually talking about salvation and how to get it.

Every single week at the end of each sermon he tells how to be saved and leads a prayer of salvation for those who wish to ask Jesus into their hearts and then encourages those to prayed to get involved in a Bible-believing church.

But I've seen televised sermons where this doesn't happen.

I've actually seen it deliberately removed from the broadcast.

 

[stradial]

[quote author=Grey Colson]
The point of this topic really wasn't to bash him. Only that I felt something was amiss about his "sermons". And yes, we watched his broadcasts front to back many times. As deewee mentioned, I never saw him open the Word and preach. I don't believe God gave us his Word as a suggestion, but to speak and preach it. THAT is the only thing that changes hearts and lives. Not what I say, not what you say and not what Joel says.

I do not disagree. But just because he reads a passage off of a typed sheet of paper instead of holding His Bible doesn't mean he isn't basing what he says on Scripture. I have heard a few sermons where I thought he could have given more backup to what he was saying. But he generally has a very good Scriptural basis for what he says, and as I said, I'm picky about that crap. And I say again that I have never heard him say anything in a sermon that was contradictory to what the Bible says.

Deep, no. But theologically unsound? Also no.

I understand and maybe I should have said it's what he doesn't say that seems odd to me. Our pastor is not a stomping around, fire-breathing, hellfire and damnation preacher as some describe other old timers, but he does say without fail that rejecting Christ results in an eternity separated from Him. I just believe it's important to emphasize that to listeners at every opportunity. :dunno

Well, that is a legitimate opinion. But for me personally, I had that thought crammed down my throat to the exclusion of all else when I was growing up. Understanding God's grace and love for me has been incredibly hard for me to do, and esp. on a personal level. So that is one of the things I continue to work on.

I am also reminded of that verse in Romans 2 which says that it is the kindness of the Lord that leads to repentance.
[/quote]

I really have no idea what the preachers or teachers or my mother said about God and everything when I was young.
I do know what I heard (which is not always the same thing as what was said) and what I heard was that God was a very angry dude with a short temper.
He was quick to put the hurt on those who displeased him and was while he would forgive you, your next sin was just a thought away, cause if you think it, you did it. (so why not go ahead and do it if your getting blamed for it anyway?)
He was a tough old man who had no sense of humor and expected you to walk a fine line and if you didn't, then look out!
A simple turn of the head and you could end up salt. (and these were the people trying to do right)
I always found it tough to have a personal relationship with a deity who was quick to have those who were big fans of his endure such hardships as their family killed or enslaved, all their possessions destroyed and their body racked by diseases just to prove that the loyal follower was....loyal.

Now that is what I heard, so while I always believed in God, I acted as if there was no God because, like I said, you think it, you did it and even if you tried to do the right thing, who knows what would happen if you screwed up.

I no longer see God anywhere near that way today.
I see God as the ultimate personification of love, pure love.
If you love someone, not only unconditionally, but with a love that is so pure it cannot be put into words, you do not "test" them, you do not deliberately put obstacles in their way or punish them for any reason.

I think God set up a world in which there are consequences to our thoughts and more importantly, our actions.
These consequences are the same for everyone on the planet and some consequences have positive outcomes and some have negative outcomes.
We have free will to choose and (to me this is the best part of all) if we are going down the wrong path, experiencing negative consequences, we can simply just turn around and go down the right path and start experiencing positive consequences.

BUT, a lot of people do not have any clue what the "right" path is.
All they know is the "wrong" path.
So anything that helps someone find their way onto the right path, that to me is a good thing.
And like anything else in the world, when you first start doing something new, you need to be taught the simple basics and as you advance further along, you learn more and more complicated (complicated at least to someone who is new at it) things.

Believe it or not, there are a lot of people to whom a God that actually cares about them and wants them to do good and not punish them is an unknown concept.
And, the idea that if it is not yours, don't take it, is also an unknown concept.
So trying to get these people to immediately understand and believe something new, something that many grew up hearing about and believing for years, is not very likely.

To put it simply, you need to teach them to add and subtract before you start with the algebra.

 

[J-man]

Then JO would be a good place for those who first need to learn how to add and subtract to start. I think that sums up this thread pretty nicely, but what do I know.

 

[Grey Colson]

Then JO would be a good place for those who first need to learn how to add and subtract to start. I think that sums up this thread pretty nicely, but what do I know.

:laugh

Of course then comes along Common Core and you have to learn all over again :huh

 

[mei lan]

You can talk about Jesus all day long and spread a whole lot of good news, but if you don't tell folks how to get it, then they likely won't. That's what I find disturbing with Osteen - I don't ever recall hearing him actually talking about salvation and how to get it.

Every single week at the end of each sermon he tells how to be saved and leads a prayer of salvation for those who wish to ask Jesus into their hearts and then encourages those to prayed to get involved in a Bible-believing church.

But I've seen televised sermons where this doesn't happen.

I've actually seen it deliberately removed from the broadcast.

Really! I have never seen that.

 

[mei lan]

Then JO would be a good place for those who first need to learn how to add and subtract to start. I think that sums up this thread pretty nicely, but what do I know.

Exactly! As I said, deep, no. But theologically unsound? Also no. IMHO.

 

[mei lan]

Then JO would be a good place for those who first need to learn how to add and subtract to start. I think that sums up this thread pretty nicely, but what do I know.

:laugh

Of course then comes along Common Core and you have to learn all over again :huh

 

[deewee]

Then JO would be a good place for those who first need to learn how to add and subtract to start. I think that sums up this thread pretty nicely, but what do I know.

:laugh

Of course then comes along Common Core and you have to learn all over again :huh

)

 

[ShoeDiva]

Then JO would be a good place for those who first need to learn how to add and subtract to start. I think that sums up this thread pretty nicely, but what do I know.

Exactly! As I said, deep, no. But theologically unsound? Also no. IMHO.

I remember reading a few things that state his sermons are, I believe IF or BS made some points of FB regarding that. Where the heck are they? :tapfoot2

I will see if that article pops up when I google, though as I stated I do not like him and have never watched more than a couple minutes, so I totally can be wrong in thinking some of his stuff is not theologically accurate. (I do not know him personally, and maybe he is a great guy, but he gives me the creeps just looking at him. :shudder: and I am unsure of his religion to where my lack of knowledge of it could be why I think some of what he says is off. You know, like some people are way off base when they speak of Catholicism. )

That you like him does give me pause because I know you, and you are not one to just follow along with the pack because he is popular. (it still does not change my thoughts on his creepiness. ) )

 

[deewee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ocHN3-MKtE

 

[J-man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ocHN3-MKtE

Love the ending.

 

[deewee]

There's also an interview with Larry King, where Joel makes several statements that do not line up with the word of God. It's on Youtube. He muddies up the word to suit his audience, and that is wrong.

 

[stradial]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ocHN3-MKtE

Love the ending.

I enjoyed the clip at the end, funny.

Personally, I do agree with the lady.
If you are God, is it really important to your ego that people worship you and obey you?
I think if you are God, the answer is no, it isn't important to your self esteem or ego that people worship you and obey you.
I have said before that I see my relationship between God and I like a parent and child, but in this case, the parent is always correct and right.
I don't want my son to worship me, I do want him to respect me.
I want my son to obey me, only because in a lot of cases I know better than he does about what is right and what is wrong, what will harm him and what will help him and because by obeying me, he avoids things that will bring him sorrow and possible hurt him.
So I see the same thing with my relationship with God.
He wants me to respect him and as with any child, thank him for what he does for me and what he gives me and simple for giving me life. (there are a lot of other things to thank him for, but you get the idea)
He wants me to obey him, because doing so makes my life better (I mean my spiritual life, not my materialistic life) and helps keep me from being in turmoil and in pain. (again, this is all about the inside stuff, not the outside material stuff)
By obeying God, I avoid a lot of problems and pain, this makes me happy and makes God happy, because no parent likes to see their kid go through a lot of pain and suffering, especially when it can be avoided.

So by "worshiping" and obeying God, I live a better and happier life and I think that is what makes God happy, not the actual "worshiping" and obeying.

But these are just my beliefs at this time, check with me later and they may be different.

One last note, I mentioned people that never knew the right path.
Think about telling them, someone that is just starting to admit there is a God and what you do matters to Him.
Is it really going to make sense to them for your to say, do it because it makes God feel and live better or do it because God wants you to feel and live better, that makes God happy?

 

[Grey Colson]

There's also an interview with Larry King, where Joel makes several statements that do not line up with the word of God. It's on Youtube. He muddies up the word to suit his audience, and that is wrong.

It's seems so easy for people to dance around what God's Word says by blaming it on Christians being "judgemental". Of course it's God that judges. It's the Christian's responsibility and commandment to PROCLAIM what He clearly says in His Word to the entire world.

The caller quoted scripture. It wasn't written by her, so c'mon, it isn't the caller being judgemental of anyone. Joel may want to take a break from writing his books and read something for a change. i dunno....maybe the Bible :dunno I'm just sayin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwL1DThtxYg&feature=player_detailpage​

 

[stradial]

These are just my opinions and beliefs at this time, your may be different.


Let's take a scripture from the bible.
To me, that scripture says and means A.
To someone else, that scripture says and means B.
To another, that scripture says and means C.
And let's say that each has a number of people who believe as they do about what that scripture means.

Is one right and the other two wrong?
Are two right and the third wrong?
Can all three be right?

If your answer is that only one can be right, and the scripture says and means what you believe it means, then you will get along fine with those who believe like you, but I doubt you will ever do well in getting others to change to your beliefs.

If your answer is that two can possible be right, then you may be helpful to others in bringing them to your way of belief.

If your answer is that all three can possible be right, then you will be very good at helping others to see your point of view and helping others along their spiritual path and possible bringing them around to your point of view.

What is my answer to the questions?
This is what it means to me at this time, as my spiritual life grows and my understanding grows, it may mean that to me also in the future, but at this time, it means this to me.
So to me, it is possible that all three meanings can be correct.
Perhaps I am just not far enough along the spiritual path to understand why you believe A, B or C....or perhaps I am further along the spiritual path and I understand more.