Joel O.
- Thread starter Grey Colson
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Madea
zip a dee doo dah
Honestly, there are very, very few (meaning almost none) TV preachers that I will actually sit and listen to an entire sermon. Generally, I just don't like them.
I've never listened to more than a few minutes to Osteen, more because I find him creepy than any other reason. Maybe it's the hair. Or maybe it's the smile that seems fake to me. I don't know. I didn't realize there was a whole movement to bash him. I kinda felt like I was the minority and that's why I primarily keep my opinion to mostly myself.
I've never listened to more than a few minutes to Osteen, more because I find him creepy than any other reason. Maybe it's the hair. Or maybe it's the smile that seems fake to me. I don't know. I didn't realize there was a whole movement to bash him. I kinda felt like I was the minority and that's why I primarily keep my opinion to mostly myself.
mei lan
Pursuit Driver
Madea said:
And that's fine. I do that with more TV preachers than not. But my larger point was not to bash Colson or anybody else who doesn't like him...everybody's entitled to their opinions. My comments were directed, rather, at that movement in evangelical Christianity (and it is definitely there, believe me) to scorn Osteen, among others. Kinda like it's cool to hate Barney, and Martha Stewart, and WalMart.
My aim was two-fold - to say that I personally have never witnessed him saying something in a sermon that's contrary to the Bible, and also to warn against hopping on said bandwagon of not liking a preacher without checking things out for one's self. Note that I specifically did not accuse anyone here of doing so; I know that the peeps here are far more likely than the average bear to check things out.
I take Paul's example (and David's) pretty seriously...in Philippians 1, Paul didn't name those who were preaching out of wrong motivation, and I am hesitant to do the same unless asked specifically by someone in a personal situation. Philippians 1:15-18 (NLT) - 15 It’s true that some are preaching out of jealousy and rivalry. But others preach about Christ with pure motives. 16 They preach because they love me, for they know I have been appointed to defend the Good News. 17 Those others do not have pure motives as they preach about Christ. They preach with selfish ambition, not sincerely, intending to make my chains more painful to me. 18 But that doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice.
As for David, he had long been anointed King of Israel, and yet he would not raise his hands against Saul, who had been trying to kill him for the longest time. His attitude was that God would move Saul out of the way when He got ready, and it wasn't David's place to do anything about it.
I Samuel 24: 4-7a (NLT) - 4 “Now’s your opportunity!” David’s men whispered to him. “Today the Lord is telling you, ‘I will certainly put your enemy into your power, to do with as you wish.’” So David crept forward and cut off a piece of the hem of Saul’s robe. 5 But then David’s conscience began bothering him because he had cut Saul’s robe. 6 He said to his men, “The Lord forbid that I should do this to my lord the king. I shouldn’t attack the Lord’s anointed one, for the Lord himself has chosen him.” 7 So David restrained his men and did not let them kill Saul.
I've not noticed any organized campaign to bash Olstein; it just appears that a lot of informed Christians have noticed that he is very light and even inaccurate on the gospel.
The Bible warns us of false prophets, so I think we have a duty hold them to the scrutiny of the scripture.
Do "feel-good preachers" lead a lot of people to Christ? Yes, sort of. But I wonder how many of those professions of faith are real? Only God really knows, but I don't think Jesus would advocate the watering down of his Holy word just to make it more palatable. That really isn't necessary if you make God's love paramount in your witness.
The Bible warns us of false prophets, so I think we have a duty hold them to the scrutiny of the scripture.
Do "feel-good preachers" lead a lot of people to Christ? Yes, sort of. But I wonder how many of those professions of faith are real? Only God really knows, but I don't think Jesus would advocate the watering down of his Holy word just to make it more palatable. That really isn't necessary if you make God's love paramount in your witness.
deewee
Pursuit Driver
I've seen a few, as in maybe a handful, of his sermons (not in their entirety). I may have missed those moments where he actually cracked open a bible and read the word to the congregation. Call me old fashioned, but I actually like to see my pastor engaging with the word of God.
Tonight we were out Christmas shopping. While we were in Barnes and Noble I took noticed of one of his books prominently displayed. I couldn't help but pick it and up and read the cover. Think it was titled, "You Can, You Will." It appeared to be a "motivational" book highlighting attributes of a winner. I commented to the Queen that we were just discussing him here.
S
stradial
Guest
I wouldn't know this Olstean dude if he bought me lunch.
I have no clue if he is a preacher, motivational speaker or a combination of both.
I have no idea if he practices what he "preaches" or if God is happy or unhappy with him and what he does.
I do know that if someone has no relationship with God and for whaever reason they start a relationship with God, that has to be better than what they had before.
As far as preachers preaching God's word, what that really means is that they are preaching the word of God along the same lines as I believe and understand the bible.
Because after all, if we truly had all the answers and a complete understanding of the bible and God, wouldn't we be on TV or some rooftop somewhere shouting, "I have the truth about it all!"
I have no clue if he is a preacher, motivational speaker or a combination of both.
I have no idea if he practices what he "preaches" or if God is happy or unhappy with him and what he does.
I do know that if someone has no relationship with God and for whaever reason they start a relationship with God, that has to be better than what they had before.
As far as preachers preaching God's word, what that really means is that they are preaching the word of God along the same lines as I believe and understand the bible.
Because after all, if we truly had all the answers and a complete understanding of the bible and God, wouldn't we be on TV or some rooftop somewhere shouting, "I have the truth about it all!"
deewee said:
The point of this topic really wasn't to bash him. Only that I felt something was amiss about his "sermons". And yes, we watched his broadcasts front to back many times. As deewee mentioned, I never saw him open the Word and preach. I don't believe God gave us his Word as a suggestion, but to speak and preach it. THAT is the only thing that changes hearts and lives. Not what I say, not what you say and not what Joel says.
But speaking of TV preachers, I've heard some good ones. I certainly believe they are very important in getting out the good news of Jesus Christ, especially to those who can not or are unable to attend church. But as I used to mention to my FIL (who is a Godly man, but became fed up with church years ago), these TV preachers will not visit you in the hospital and pray with you or comfort your family in times of tragedy or support you in your time of need. Not to mention the lack of a church family who can be a huge support and comfort when you need it.
J-man said:
Now you're talking about a strange bird. :'(
mei lan
Pursuit Driver
deewee said:
And I do not disagree...as I said, he is not deep theology, Biblical exegesis, and all that. But what I need, and have had all too little of in my life, is encouragement and understanding of how God loves me and how He wants to move in my life, and that Joel does very, very well. I grew up in a church that was negative and legalistic (but I repeat myself). And while in years afterward I got the deep theological background of which I spoke, the missing piece continued to be the positive, encouraging truth of how He loves ME and wants to move in MY life.
Not being deep is, to me, different than being "off", as GC originally put it. And if he's not a person's cup of tea, that's fine. All I am saying is that for some people, what he offers is legit and applicable to where they are at that time. And if people want to come up with things he and Victoria have said that are off the mark, that's fine, too, but as I mentioned, that's a game I can play with just about any preacher or teacher with the exception of maybe Ravi Zacharias. Joel and Victoria profess Jesus and profess their belief in the word of God, and any errors they make are between them and God, IMHO.
honeybunny
Pursuit Driver
Grey Colson said:
Careful with that ax Eugene... Richard Simmons is one of my favorite people.
mei lan
Pursuit Driver
[quote author=Grey Colson]
The point of this topic really wasn't to bash him. Only that I felt something was amiss about his "sermons". And yes, we watched his broadcasts front to back many times. As deewee mentioned, I never saw him open the Word and preach. I don't believe God gave us his Word as a suggestion, but to speak and preach it. THAT is the only thing that changes hearts and lives. Not what I say, not what you say and not what Joel says.[/quote]
I do not disagree. But just because he reads a passage off of a typed sheet of paper instead of holding His Bible doesn't mean he isn't basing what he says on Scripture. I have heard a few sermons where I thought he could have given more backup to what he was saying. But he generally has a very good Scriptural basis for what he says, and as I said, I'm picky about that crap. And I say again that I have never heard him say anything in a sermon that was contradictory to what the Bible says.
Deep, no. But theologically unsound? Also no.
The point of this topic really wasn't to bash him. Only that I felt something was amiss about his "sermons". And yes, we watched his broadcasts front to back many times. As deewee mentioned, I never saw him open the Word and preach. I don't believe God gave us his Word as a suggestion, but to speak and preach it. THAT is the only thing that changes hearts and lives. Not what I say, not what you say and not what Joel says.[/quote]
I do not disagree. But just because he reads a passage off of a typed sheet of paper instead of holding His Bible doesn't mean he isn't basing what he says on Scripture. I have heard a few sermons where I thought he could have given more backup to what he was saying. But he generally has a very good Scriptural basis for what he says, and as I said, I'm picky about that crap. And I say again that I have never heard him say anything in a sermon that was contradictory to what the Bible says.
Deep, no. But theologically unsound? Also no.
mei lan said:
I do not disagree. But just because he reads a passage off of a typed sheet of paper instead of holding His Bible doesn't mean he isn't basing what he says on Scripture. I have heard a few sermons where I thought he could have given more backup to what he was saying. But he generally has a very good Scriptural basis for what he says, and as I said, I'm picky about that crap. And I say again that I have never heard him say anything in a sermon that was contradictory to what the Bible says.
Deep, no. But theologically unsound? Also no.
[/quote]
I understand and maybe I should have said it's what he doesn't say that seems odd to me. Our pastor is not a stomping around, fire-breathing, hellfire and damnation preacher as some describe other old timers, but he does say without fail that rejecting Christ results in an eternity separated from Him. I just believe it's important to emphasize that to listeners at every opportunity. :dunno
deewee
Pursuit Driver
I do believe there is a place in this world for preachers like Joel. There are many like him, and what they lack in bringing forth real spiritual food for their congregations, they make up for by appealing to masses of people that would otherwise not give a listen.
His brand of gospel is "easy" to hear, and probably does present itself nicely to people that normally wouldn't accept God (for whatever reason). But, there comes a time when the rubber has to meet the road, and real spiritual food is needed to run the race (that's me). I don't need someone to make me "feel good" about God's word, at this point in my walk. That is probably much of the sticking point for many here. Most of us, I believe, are already grounded Christians. Therefore, that easy stuff isn't what we need for continued growh. We already know about the wonderful, unchanging, relentlessly pursuing, unshakeable, grace of God...or we should.
I guess all I'm saying is that Joel's sermons don't cut it for me, though I do know more than a few that couldn't sit thru a sermon I'd like, and would prefer to hear Joel.
His brand of gospel is "easy" to hear, and probably does present itself nicely to people that normally wouldn't accept God (for whatever reason). But, there comes a time when the rubber has to meet the road, and real spiritual food is needed to run the race (that's me). I don't need someone to make me "feel good" about God's word, at this point in my walk. That is probably much of the sticking point for many here. Most of us, I believe, are already grounded Christians. Therefore, that easy stuff isn't what we need for continued growh. We already know about the wonderful, unchanging, relentlessly pursuing, unshakeable, grace of God...or we should.
I guess all I'm saying is that Joel's sermons don't cut it for me, though I do know more than a few that couldn't sit thru a sermon I'd like, and would prefer to hear Joel.
LisaC
I'm here to spin the moral compass.
You can talk about Jesus all day long and spread a whole lot of good news, but if you don't tell folks how to get it, then they likely won't. That's what I find disturbing with Osteen - I don't ever recall hearing him actually talking about salvation and how to get it.