How low will Trump go?

Boss 302 said:
My decision not to support him has nothing to do with not supporting him now. I won't support him now because he's been making accusations the election was filled with fraud and that's why he lost. He's been tearing the GOP apart ever since then with his attitude that if don't support him, you're not loyal or now his enemy. Keep in mind Hillary had 48% of the vote to Trump's 45.9%. He lost GA in 2020 because he told his supporters to not even bother to vote in the senate runoff election saying the Dems were going to cheat. Just under 2.5 people voted in the 2020 presidential election, but only 2.2 million voted for Perdue and only 2.1 million for Loeffler. Both those Senate elections were damn close. It's Trump's fault we lost the two Senate seats to Democrats.

I regress. I have yet to see any evidence that cheating was why he lost.
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It’s all good with me, we’re all grown adults and have our own opinions. Hopefully we’ll all be on the same team after the Primary.
 
Guard Dad said:
This is twice you've posted about his policies being overturned, but I have to ask what else he could have done?

Under the Constitution, no president can legislate, only Congress can. Trump did help push through and sign some legislation, including:

  • Signed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act – the largest tax reform package in history.
  • More than 6 million American workers received wage increases, bonuses, and increased benefits thanks to the tax cuts.
  • A typical family of four earning $75,000 received an income tax cut of more than $2,000 – slashing their tax bill in half.
  • Doubled the standard deduction – making the first $24,000 earned by a married couple completely tax-free.
  • Doubled the child tax credit.
  • Virtually eliminated the unfair Estate Tax, or Death Tax.
  • Cut the business tax rate from 35 percent – the highest in the developed world – all the way down to 21 percent.
  • Small businesses can now deduct 20 percent of their business income.
  • Businesses can now deduct 100 percent of the cost of their capital investments in the year the investment is made.
  • Since the passage of tax cuts, the share of total wealth held by the bottom half of households has increased, while the share held by the top 1 percent has decreased.
  • Over 400 companies have announced bonuses, wage increases, new hires, or new investments in the United States.
  • Over $1.5 trillion was repatriated into the United States from overseas.
  • Lower investment cost and higher capital returns led to faster growth in the middle class, real wages, and international competitiveness.

    I think most of this is still in effect.

    As for his E/Os, there are only as permanent as the next president wishes. Meaning, Any president's E/Os can be reversed at the stroke of a pen. So I'm not sure what else he could have done.
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Never said I did not like his policies especially tax reductions which is pretty much your whole list. Pretty much your entire list is just a breakdown of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Is this his legacy for 4 years in office? I don't need a civics lesson by the way. I understand how congress works. My point is he did legislate from the executive branch by using EP on many of his policies. Thus doing an end around Congress and the Constitution. Yes every president in the last 30 years has used EP to the point of bastardizing the entire process and DJT is surely no exception. He could be very close to a tyrant at times and given the chance I have no doubt he would become a despot. A good leader would work with congress not alienate both parties to the point no one wanted to work with him except some other whack-a-doodles like MTG. The man is a proven cheat, womanizer, egomaniac, thief, liar, corporate raider, slum lord, tax dodger who has screwed small businesses way more than he has ever helped them. Read "The Art of the Steal" and you will see my statements about screwing people out of hard earned money is a fact. The arrogant SOB brags about "negotiating" payment to companies who have already gone into debt to do business with him and then paying them pennies on the dollar by tying them up in so much red tape they have to settle or bankrupt. That is not smart business that is theft. Do you want to do business with some one like that? He is an awful human being unfit for office and nothing will change my mind about that. I digress.
 
Stonewall said:
Never said I did not like his policies especially tax reductions which is pretty much your whole list. Pretty much your entire list is just a breakdown of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Is this his legacy for 4 years in office? I don't need a civics lesson by the way. I understand how congress works. My point is he did legislate from the executive branch by using EP on many of his policies. Thus doing an end around Congress and the Constitution. Yes every president in the last 30 years has used EP to the point of bastardizing the entire process and DJT is surely no exception. He could be very close to a tyrant at times and given the chance I have no doubt he would become a despot. A good leader would work with congress not alienate both parties to the point no one wanted to work with him except some other whack-a-doodles like MTG. The man is a proven cheat, womanizer, egomaniac, thief, liar, corporate raider, slum lord, tax dodger who has screwed small businesses way more than he has ever helped them. Read "The Art of the Steal" and you will see my statements about screwing people out of hard earned money is a fact. The arrogant SOB brags about "negotiating" payment to companies who have already gone into debt to do business with him and then paying them pennies on the dollar by tying them up in so much red tape they have to settle or bankrupt. That is not smart business that is theft. Do you want to do business with some one like that? He is an awful human being unfit for office and nothing will change my mind about that. I digress.
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Aren't most politicians proven cheats, womanizer (or manizers), egomaniacs, thieves, corporate raiders, slum lords, and tax dodgers who have screwed small businesses or was it only DJT? If their mouths move they're lying....all of them. Actually you do need a civics refresher course, today's politics doesn't follow the textbook version and I'll even go as far as saying even the Constitution. If you think any modern day POTUS can get things done thru the Houses you're sadly mistaken. Whether we like it or not it just doesn't work that way anymore...for any POTUS, regardless of party affiliation. I do agree that it should be done that way, but it is no longer the case. People have difficulty in accepting how the political "system" has changed, we like to see it the way it once was and that's understandable. It's part of the shenanigans I often refer to and both parties have learned how to cleverly play the game well.

Again, I don't care who you vote for...just vote.
 
Stonewall said:
Never said I did not like his policies especially tax reductions which is pretty much your whole list. Pretty much your entire list is just a breakdown of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Is this his legacy for 4 years in office? I don't need a civics lesson by the way. I understand how congress works. My point is he did legislate from the executive branch by using EP on many of his policies. Thus doing an end around Congress and the Constitution. Yes every president in the last 30 years has used EP to the point of bastardizing the entire process and DJT is surely no exception. He could be very close to a tyrant at times and given the chance I have no doubt he would become a despot. A good leader would work with congress not alienate both parties to the point no one wanted to work with him except some other whack-a-doodles like MTG. The man is a proven cheat, womanizer, egomaniac, thief, liar, corporate raider, slum lord, tax dodger who has screwed small businesses way more than he has ever helped them. Read "The Art of the Steal" and you will see my statements about screwing people out of hard earned money is a fact. The arrogant SOB brags about "negotiating" payment to companies who have already gone into debt to do business with him and then paying them pennies on the dollar by tying them up in so much red tape they have to settle or bankrupt. That is not smart business that is theft. Do you want to do business with some one like that? He is an awful human being unfit for office and nothing will change my mind about that. I digress.
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I don't think I was clear. You had mentioned that Trump's policies have been overturned and you made the statement at some point that a real leader would have made lasting policies (or something to that effect).

My question is, how would any other president have made policies that were more lasting or permanent? What constitutional power would he have used to make laws that the next guy or next congress could not overturn?

I'm just not understanding how any other president could have made a more permanent change.

FWIW, I don't disagree with many of your statements regarding Trump. He has been his own worst enemy in many ways. I'm just not sure parts of what he's being blamed for is fair.
 
Guard Dad said:
My question is, how would any other president have made policies that were more lasting or permanent? What constitutional power would he have used to make laws that the next guy or next congress could not overturn?
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Agreed that there is nothing that can be done that can't be undone, but getting policies into law makes it very difficult to change later.

The Obamacare law for example, we've had a GOP President and GOP Congress and STILL couldn't get it reversed.

My complaint with Trump was that he was very much a "My way or the Highway" person. yeah, the Congress we the people saddled him with was not the greatest (too many RINOs) but in two freaking years he should have passed much more than just the tax cuts if he worked with the GOP and against the Dems instead of Him vs everyone. Any concerned raised by even his own side was immediately tweeted as "stupid" or whatever. What incentive was there for Congress to work with him? None.

His lack of an ability to work, even a little bit, with the GOP majority he was handed made him damn near worthless for all we approve of his actions.

I'm not saying that Congress should always vote for what a President of his party demands, but they should be willing to talk, debate and come to a compromise within the same party.
 
Guard Dad said:
I don't think I was clear. You had mentioned that Trump's policies have been overturned and you made the statement at some point that a real leader would have made lasting policies (or something to that effect).

My question is, how would any other president have made policies that were more lasting or permanent? What constitutional power would he have used to make laws that the next guy or next congress could not overturn?

I'm just not understanding how any other president could have made a more permanent change.

FWIW, I don't disagree with many of your statements regarding Trump. He has been his own worst enemy in many ways. I'm just not sure parts of what he's being blamed for is fair.
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Trump started out with a Republican majority congress and wasn't able to do much with them. That's what happens when you insult members of your own party. It's one of the reasons for Reagan's 11th commandment.
 
I will try to address GD and J-Man's questions here. My view is my view and I don't expect to change your views. This is just healthy conversation and debate. No I don't believe most politicians are vile, disloyal, womanizing, corporate raiders, void of character or honor though I admit many are. Now the lying part probably encompasses almost all of them. As for "today's politics" I was unaware the Constitution was no longer the law of the land I must have missed that in Civics class. The founding fathers made it hard to change law for a reason it is not suppose to be at the whim of the executive branch, the legislative branch or the judicial branch. This is checks and balances. The Sound Guy had a better explanation of my thoughts than I could pontificate as it applies to the lack of permanent policy passed by DJT so if it is alright I will just say I agree 100% with his statement. His example of Obamacare is spot on. Think of what butt wipes Clinton and Hussein were yet somehow they got laws changed that still effect us today. So am I saying they were better leaders than DJT, yes I am. Did I agree/support their policies? Mostly no (Clinton's ROTH IRA will save me thousands of tax dollars much like the DJT Tax Bill) so that's why I say mostly no. A law passed through Congress is much harder to change than a policy. If I seem angry at DJT I am not. I just do not have one ounce of respect for the man. Probably his disloyalty to people who support him, work their asses off for him,take bullets for him turns my stomach. He has thrown many of his adamant supporters under the bus when they dared to say no to him. This speaks volumes as to his lack of character and his total absence of honor. As for me voting don't worry. I have voted in all but one (I missed a local election one time) national, state and local election since 1980.
 
I'm glad we can debate here without getting mad at each other. I think we're all good people here and we probably agree on most things, certainly the things that are really important.

I do fully realize that Trump is divisive and polarizing, that's why I didn't vote for him in the 2016 primary. And I'm with some of you in thinking that it would be best if Trump stepped aside in favor of a candidate who doesn't have such high negatives. And a younger candidate, I will add. But I don't see that happening, at least yet.

Don't be surprised if Trump wins the nomination. Polls show him still getting about 50% of the Republican vote, so there's a reasonable chance he will be the nominee. And I still think he has an ace up his sleeve, possibly as to who his running mate will be.

There is virtually zero chance that the Dems will run anyone who isn't a Socialist whack job, so I hope we can all come together when that time comes to vote for whichever candidate isn't the Socialist, even if it's just voting for the lessor of evils. And yes, that sucks, but it's the sorry state of American politics these days.
 
It may surprise people but I’m really not a blind DJT follower. I see his faults, they’re blatant. I’m just personally willing to lay them aside because I feel in my gut that he does want to make America great again (not as a slogan) and put Americans first. I’m sick of candidates taking office then doing absolutely nothing, or worse, doing the opposite. Our country is on the ropes and needs someone with unorthodox ways to right our ship. I can’t think of a more qualified candidate who is experienced on the world stage to accomplish this than DJT.

I agree that it’s nice that we can reasonably disagree here. It may get tense at times but rarely does anyone cross obvious lines. We’re so far away from the Primary it’s actually useless to even speculate. For all we know DJT will be jailed and DS will decide it’s not for him or his family.
 
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