HOPE Scholarship Woes Continue to Grow

[Foxmeister]

The military is not an option for MANY??? Do the majority of kids graduating from high school today do so with some physcial disability that would prevent them from doing so??? I would dare say the vast majority of graduating seniors would be eligible for military service. The problem is so many don't want to EARN their way through higher education.

I'm all in favor of 2-year mandatory military service for those graduating from high school who do not have a mental or physical disqualification.

 

[ShoeDiva]

The military is not an option for MANY??? Do the majority of kids graduating from high school today do so with some physcial disability that would prevent them from doing so??? I would dare say the vast majority of graduating seniors would be eligible for military service. The problem is so many don't want to EARN their way through higher education.

I'm all in favor of 2-year mandatory military service for those graduating from high school who do not have a mental or physical disqualification.

:laugh Breathe Fox.

Actually the amount of students that have IEP's, EIP's, 504's, etc, etc, etc...is way more than you could know.

Mandatory military? :faint

 

[Foxmeister]

I would wager that 75% of the kids graduating from high school this year would be eligible for military service; therefore the GI Bill would be a viable option.

Yes, I'm all for mandatory military service for males graduating from high school.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I would wager that 75% of the kids graduating from high school this year would be eligible for military service; therefore the GI Bill would be a viable option.

Yes, I'm all for mandatory military service for males graduating from high school.

Okay. If that is what you believe.

Anyway, I do NOT believe in mandatory military. I truly find that ridiculous, not everyone is cut out for that. Would you want some yahoo that didn't want to do it, or is inept fighting along side of you just so they get the GI Bill? I wouldn't.

 

[Foxmeister]

How many people join the military already knowing how to shoot, move and communicate in battle? That's what basic training and infantry training is for.

We used to have the draft. Do you think many of those who were drafted during Vietnam were happy their number was called? Do you think draftees who went to war were inept at fighting?

I think mandatory military service out of high school would be great for guys coming out of high school. It will give many of them something they had very little of while growing up - discipline. It would also teach them how to be responsible.

 

[copschick]

Heres a subject near and dear to my heart...

What about people like me that were promised the Hope Scholarship, made good grades, MAINTAINED an excellent GPA in college and then had it snatched out from under me? Now I am stuck with student loans paying back money that I shouldn't have to afford because the state of Ga mismanaged funds. Yes, they did. Anyone that moved to the state of Ga and lived here a certain length of time was entitled to monies that were designated for GA students that GRADUATED from a Ga high school.

Now, onto the whole not testing well thing. Fox, I had a 4.0 GPA and didn't do well on a standardized test. Sometimes there is no good way to prepare for something like that. I study like hell to keep my grades high, but I can't prepare myself to be tested on information I haven't learned.

 

[Foxmeister]

If a kid is going through high school with plans to go to college; then that student needs to take at least two years of Albebra, a year of Trigonometry, Calculus, a minimum of three years of English, at least two years of Social Science classes, and three years of Science classes. If they perform well in these classes, then they should perform well on the SAT or ACT.

There are lot of "Honor Roll" students in high school who are taking easy classes: shop, cosmetology, etc; but those aren't classes that are going to help you with the SAT or ACT. A college bound student should take the prep ACT when a sophomore in high school. The results will show where the student needs to concentrate. Then they should take the prep-SAT again their junior year; again to show not only progress, but where they need to improve as well.

 

[ShoeDiva]

If a kid is going through high school with plans to go to college; then that student needs to take at least two years of Albebra, a year of Trigonometry, Calculus, a minimum of three years of English, at least two years of Social Science classes, and three years of Science classes. If they perform well in these classes, then they should perform well on the SAT or ACT.

There are lot of "Honor Roll" students in high school who are taking easy classes: shop, cosmetology, etc; but those aren't classes that are going to help you with the SAT or ACT. A college bound student should take the prep ACT when a sophomore in high school. The results will show where the student needs to concentrate. Then they should take the prep-SAT again their junior year; again to show not only progress, but where they need to improve as well.

Look at the requirements to graduate Fox. You are way off base. They actually have more requirements than what you have wrote, they take the PSAT's in Sophomore year, SAT's in Junior, and can improve on their score by retaking it again in Junior year & throughout Senior year.
Sadly some do not approve, because they test poorly.

 

[ShoeDiva]

Heres a subject near and dear to my heart...

What about people like me that were promised the Hope Scholarship, made good grades, MAINTAINED an excellent GPA in college and then had it snatched out from under me? Now I am stuck with student loans paying back money that I shouldn't have to afford because the state of Ga mismanaged funds. Yes, they did. Anyone that moved to the state of Ga and lived here a certain length of time was entitled to monies that were designated for GA students that GRADUATED from a Ga high school.

Now, onto the whole not testing well thing. Fox, I had a 4.0 GPA and didn't do well on a standardized test. Sometimes there is no good way to prepare for something like that. I study like hell to keep my grades high, but I can't prepare myself to be tested on information I haven't learned.

I hate that for you.

 

[copschick]

If a kid is going through high school with plans to go to college; then that student needs to take at least two years of Albebra, a year of Trigonometry, Calculus, a minimum of three years of English, at least two years of Social Science classes, and three years of Science classes. If they perform well in these classes, then they should perform well on the SAT or ACT.

There are lot of "Honor Roll" students in high school who are taking easy classes: shop, cosmetology, etc; but those aren't classes that are going to help you with the SAT or ACT. A college bound student should take the prep ACT when a sophomore in high school. The results will show where the student needs to concentrate. Then they should take the prep-SAT again their junior year; again to show not only progress, but where they need to improve as well.

Some "college bound" kids STILL have trouble. I was in slower math in high school. I took Algebra (but it took me 2 years because I was on a slower track) I took Geometry my Junior year, but had to struggle, and then Algebra II my Senior year, and again, struggled. My other grades were outstanding, I was in honors classes.
Even now, I struggle with Math. College Algebra almost led me to drink..well, ok bad example since I already drink, but do you see my point? I couldn't tell you half of what I learned in that class because I didn't understand it, yet I studied enough and did my work and got an A in the class.
My oldest child TESTS very well. He can breeze through a standardized test, but struggle in class. Its all in what we are skilled at.

 

[Foxmeister]

How could you get an A in Algebra if you didn't understand it? I don't understand that at all.

 

[copschick]

How could you get an A in Algebra if you didn't understand it? I don't understand that at all.

Because I studied enough for each test to muddle my way through it. Plus some tests are multiple choice and I can do deductive reasoning...

 

[ShoeDiva]

If a kid is going through high school with plans to go to college; then that student needs to take at least two years of Albebra, a year of Trigonometry, Calculus, a minimum of three years of English, at least two years of Social Science classes, and three years of Science classes. If they perform well in these classes, then they should perform well on the SAT or ACT.

There are lot of "Honor Roll" students in high school who are taking easy classes: shop, cosmetology, etc; but those aren't classes that are going to help you with the SAT or ACT. A college bound student should take the prep ACT when a sophomore in high school. The results will show where the student needs to concentrate. Then they should take the prep-SAT again their junior year; again to show not only progress, but where they need to improve as well.

Some "college bound" kids STILL have trouble. I was in slower math in high school. I took Algebra (but it took me 2 years because I was on a slower track) I took Geometry my Junior year, but had to struggle, and then Algebra II my Senior year, and again, struggled. My other grades were outstanding, I was in honors classes.
Even now, I struggle with Math. College Algebra almost led me to drink..well, ok bad example since I already drink, but do you see my point? I couldn't tell you half of what I learned in that class because I didn't understand it, yet I studied enough and did my work and got an A in the class.
My oldest child TESTS very well. He can breeze through a standardized test, but struggle in class. Its all in what we are skilled at.

:spitchick That was hilarious!

Your last sentence, spot on.

 

[Foxmeister]

If a kid is going through high school with plans to go to college; then that student needs to take at least two years of Albebra, a year of Trigonometry, Calculus, a minimum of three years of English, at least two years of Social Science classes, and three years of Science classes. If they perform well in these classes, then they should perform well on the SAT or ACT.

There are lot of "Honor Roll" students in high school who are taking easy classes: shop, cosmetology, etc; but those aren't classes that are going to help you with the SAT or ACT. A college bound student should take the prep ACT when a sophomore in high school. The results will show where the student needs to concentrate. Then they should take the prep-SAT again their junior year; again to show not only progress, but where they need to improve as well.

Look at the requirements to graduate Fox. You are way off base. They actually have more requirements than what you have wrote, they take the PSAT's in Sophomore year, SAT's in Junior, and can improve on their score by retaking it again in Junior year & throughout Senior year.
Sadly some do not approve, because they test poorly.

I'm well aware of what the requirements for graduation are. What I was saying, in order for a kid to adequately prepare for the SAT or ACT in their senior year, they need to take those classes I listed.

Our public schools are not doing what they should be doing to prepare kids for college. It's just not the public schools fault either. There are way too many parents who are not involved in their children's education as they should be. If the parents don't care about their child's education, the chances are their kids won't care either. The problems with our public education is very complex. What I see today is too many people making excuses for our failing educational system. Too many believe throwing more money at education will solve the problems. I think in many ways, that's only contributing to its downfall.

Some reading what I'm about to say may think this comment racist, but look at what race of people in this country seem to excel academically. Asians. Why? Look at the family structure. Most Asian families are intact and the parents are very involved with their children's education. The more involved parents are in their children's education, the more they seem to excel.

 

[Foxmeister]

How could you get an A in Algebra if you didn't understand it? I don't understand that at all.

Because I studied enough for each test to muddle my way through it. Plus some tests are multiple choice and I can do deductive reasoning...

Isn't the Math on the SAT and ACT multiple choice?

 

[ShoeDiva]

If a kid is going through high school with plans to go to college; then that student needs to take at least two years of Albebra, a year of Trigonometry, Calculus, a minimum of three years of English, at least two years of Social Science classes, and three years of Science classes. If they perform well in these classes, then they should perform well on the SAT or ACT.

There are lot of "Honor Roll" students in high school who are taking easy classes: shop, cosmetology, etc; but those aren't classes that are going to help you with the SAT or ACT. A college bound student should take the prep ACT when a sophomore in high school. The results will show where the student needs to concentrate. Then they should take the prep-SAT again their junior year; again to show not only progress, but where they need to improve as well.

Look at the requirements to graduate Fox. You are way off base. They actually have more requirements than what you have wrote, they take the PSAT's in Sophomore year, SAT's in Junior, and can improve on their score by retaking it again in Junior year & throughout Senior year.
Sadly some do not approve, because they test poorly.

I'm well aware of what the requirements for graduation are. What I was saying, in order for a kid to adequately prepare for the SAT or ACT in their senior year, they need to take those classes I listed.

Our public schools are not doing what they should be doing to prepare kids for college. It's just not the public schools fault either. There are way too many parents who are not involved in their children's education as they should be. If the parents don't care about their child's education, the chances are their kids won't care either. The problems with our public education is very complex. What I see today is too many people making excuses for our failing educational system. Too many believe throwing more money at education will solve the problems. I think in many ways, that's only contributing to its downfall.

Some reading what I'm about to say may think this comment racist, but look at what race of people in this country seem to excel academically. Asians. Why? Look at the family structure. Most Asian families are intact and the parents are very involved with their children's education. The more involved parents are in their children's education, the more they seem to excel.

Okay if you are well aware of those requirements than you are aware that all the kids have exceeded them and some are still not doing great.

I do agree that the children with involved parents do excel as a whole, but you must concede that sometimes, no matter what help is received and how hard a child tries, some still test poorly.

I also agree with the fact that throwing money at K-12 does not help. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel. Do the basics, that will prepare them better than anything. (We in GA, for example, have changed numerous times on how to teach, math, science, etc. I do think, from what I have read, that we are on a better course than we have been.)

Fox I have to say all kids are not the same. Some excel at one thing, others another. They do not all fit into the same box.

 

[Foxmeister]

I'm not saying they all fit in the same box. Some kids aren't equipped to go to college and the schools need to quit thinking they can prepare every kid for college. It's one reason I believe in a strong vocational system in our public schools. It's absolutely stupid to believe every kid should go to college and the public schools offer nothing worthwhile for the student who doesn't want to go to college to sit in classrooms all day.

The school system is failing those students who have no desire to go to college. In fact, the public school system is setting these students up for failure as well as their own schools.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I'm not saying they all fit in the same box. Some kids aren't equipped to go to college and the schools need to quit thinking they can prepare every kid for college. It's one reason I believe in a strong vocational system in our public schools. It's absolutely stupid to believe every kid should go to college and the public schools offer nothing worthwhile for the student who doesn't want to go to college to sit in classrooms all day.

The school system is failing those students who have no desire to go to college. In fact, the public school system is setting these students up for failure as well as their own schools.

Huh?
We are talking about kids that are going to college. At least I have been (on the most part) for four pages. This whole topic has gone astray.
Same box, as in, every kid does not learn the same. I am still talking about the college bound students that should be college bound.

 

[Foxmeister]

How many kids who start attending college using the HOPE scholarship actually graduate? Not all kids who go to college actually graduate. We have seen drastic rise in college enrollment over the last 40 years because our public schools attempt to fill every student's head that they have to go to college to be successful and therefore have tried to change the curriculum towards college for all students. This is stupid because not every kid is going to college and not every kid who goes to college will complete a degree.

It's disgusting when 25% of college freshman using the HOPE are having to take remedial classes in college in Math, English, and Science; with the higher percentage in Math. If you doubt my numbers, either use Google or search a past thread where this was discussed and I provided a link to the source.

 

[ShoeDiva]

How many kids who start attending college using the HOPE scholarship actually graduate? Not all kids who go to college actually graduate. We have seen drastic rise in college enrollment over the last 40 years because our public schools attempt to fill every student's head that they have to go to college to be successful and therefore have tried to change the curriculum towards college for all students. This is stupid because not every kid is going to college and not every kid who goes to college will complete a degree.

It's disgusting when 25% of college freshman using the HOPE are having to take remedial classes in college in Math, English, and Science; with the higher percentage in Math. If you doubt my numbers, either use Google or search a past thread where this was discussed and I provided a link to the source.

Whatever. I am done Fox. You will not listen to me or anyone else that knows of children that have problems or is in the schools. I do and see both. I do not remember a link showing the percent you state and I am not going to look. If you want to post it do, but I actually never remember you posting that.
People like ones that have posted and ones I know are impacted in the changes and you seem to think if you are not brilliant, make a 4.0 and perfect SAT's you should not go to college. This whole thread has become ridiculous. You have gone onto numerous paths when things are pointed out that show another side and do not go with what you had just posted. You are not right on everything and while I have agreed to some of your points you have ignored or shot down all of mine and others. I am done trying to make you see something behind the blinders you seem to have on this subject.
I like you Fox but not being willing to see anything beyond what you believe is not right.