Can Social Acceptance Encourage Immorality?

cptlo306 said:
Understood. Those things you listed (murder, theft, cheating) all have victims so it makes sense that they would be considered wrong. Two people of the same sex having consensual sex has no victim. Neither does someone wanting to transition to the opposite sex. Again, these things may not be OK with everyone but in my opinion, we should 'live and let live'.
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There are lots of things that are victim-less that are generally considered wrong. Some even illegal.

The sexual relationship between the mother and son would be victim-less, yet you consider it to be wrong, as most of us do.
 
Guard Dad said:
There are lots of things that are victim-less that are generally considered wrong. Some even illegal.

The sexual relationship between the mother and son would be victim-less, yet you consider it to be wrong, as most of us do.
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There are exceptions to my 'live and let live' mantra. :cheesy:
 
A friend of mine once said to me, "Each generation will accept what is morally wrong to the previous generation as normal." I'm thinking we are seeing that today.
I had a status that another friend of mine posted on FB book today. Basically I guess someone she knows has 4 children from 4 different men. Her post was/is an demonstration of "judge not, lest ye be judged." However, that is not what the Bible teaches.
Do I think that acceptance of out of wedlock pregnancies, all things homosexual, and accepting of unnatural behavior is detrimental to any society? Yes, I do.

Lets take this transgender thing, even the most famous transgender person says he doesn't like guys, but he wants to be a woman. So does that mean he is a lesbian trapped in a mans body? If that is the case then most men could say that. I read about a couple where the guy wants to be a woman, and the woman wants to be a guy, but they are still attracted (the woman got pregnant) to the opposite sex.

The out of wedlock birth deal is one that I have mixed feelings on. Do I think we should encourage it, by saying "oh it's ok?" No, but once the HUMAN fetus (AKA a baby) is there we should support the mother in bringing this life into the world. I also think that we need to raise that bar that says to our children (both boys and girls) that it is not acceptable to go around having sex with every Tom, Dick, and Harry, or every Susie, Betty, and Veronica. Stop the double standard.

It seems to me ( I am at that point where I'm looking back on things and seeing the shifts in moral behavior) that since our great grandparents time we have been in a moral decline. Yes I think it started the major decline with the parents who grew up in the 60s. Then it got worse with those of us in the 70s, and the children of the 80s suffered because parents of the 70s didn't know how to parent. So, now what has happened? We see the children of parents from the 80s, being confused, not knowing history, not understanding how to control themselves, so they give their children up to the gooberment to take care of, and expect someone else to take care of them.
 
I've been watching a lot of Mad Men recently,
and in many ways it seems to me that society
is a lot more uptight these days than they were back then.


:dunno:
 
There is a clear distinction between things you or I as an individual would not do and the things that society as a collection of individuals have the right to prohibit. That line is drawn where the action might reasonably be expected to harm another.

As far as what we "look down upon", I think that has always varied according to the " we" being polled. Society has been moving more in the direction of tolerance of the individual's right to self determination even when individual actions are not good for the actor. I do not think we are any more tolerant of actions which harm others. Drunk driving is one example which comes to mind. I don't think that Newt's arguement properly accounts for that distinction, and I don't think it started with the hippies.
 
lotstodo said:
There is a clear distinction between things you or I as an individual would not do and the things that society as a collection of individuals have the right to prohibit. That line is drawn where the action might reasonably be expected to harm another.

As far as what we "look down upon", I think that has always varied according to the " we" being polled. Society has been moving more in the direction of tolerance of the individual's right to self determination even when individual actions are not good for the actor. I do not think we are any more tolerant of actions which harm others. Drunk driving is one example which comes to mind. I don't think that Newt's arguement properly accounts for that distinction, and I don't think it started with the hippies.
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:thumbsup:

I still think you should have thrown your name into the ring for President.
 
honeybunny said:
I've been watching a lot of Mad Men recently,
and in many ways it seems to me that society
is a lot more uptight these days than they were back then.


:dunno:
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I have never watched that show and my gf has told me numerous times that I would love it and should watch.
 
lotstodo said:
BTW, teen pregnancies are at their lowest rate in more than 30 years and the teen abortion rate is the lowest since the RvW.

https://www.guttmacher.org/report/u..._9ac83dc920-f40ca32a04-260603849#full-article
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Even your article states it's due to education and availability of contraception (which I feel is a good thing), not a reduction in teens having sex, which the article also admits is up.

So we're doing better at preventing pregnancies, but not at preventing the act that causes them.
 
True, but the contention seems to be that if we are more accepting of something we get more of it. Things like that stupid MTV show have been mentioned in many conversations similar to this one as an example of how we glorify teen pregnancy and we will get more of it. Obviously that isn't the case here.

As for teens having sex, let me know if you find a cure for that one. I know a few young ladies in our family I would like to have that vaccination.
 
lotstodo said:
True, but the contention seems to be that if we are more accepting of something we get more of it. Things like that stupid MTV show have been mentioned in many conversations similar to this one as an example of how we glorify teen pregnancy and we will get more of it. Obviously that isn't the case here.

As for teens having sex, let me know if you find a cure for that one. I know a few young ladies in our family I would like to have that vaccination.
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The education and availability of contraception is the only saving grace of the issue. Imagine how bad teenage pregnancy could be without it, given the increased acceptance of it today.

BTW...Newt's speech I referenced was probably around the 1990s, right when teenage pregnancy hit the all-time high according to your article.

I realize that we're not going to stop hormone driven teens from doing the deed. But studies show that most young girls do it not for the sex, but out of a need for acceptance. So maybe if it wasn't so okie dokie by today's standards, some would find a different means.
 
Guard Dad said:
The education and availability of contraception is the only saving grace of the issue. Imagine how bad teenage pregnancy could be without it, given the increased acceptance of it today.

BTW...Newt's speech I referenced was probably around the 1990s, right when teenage pregnancy hit the all-time high according to your article.

I realize that we're not going to stop hormone driven teens from doing the deed. But studies show that most young girls do it not for the sex, but out of a need for acceptance. So maybe if it wasn't so okie dokie by today's standards, some would find a different means.
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I remember when I was in high school and my father sat me down to have one of those talks. It went something like this:

Dad: If you ever come home and tell us the girlfriend of the week is pregnant, I'm going to beat your ass within an inch of your life. You're going to beg me to kill you because you are in so much pain, but I won't as I'll want you to live to get a job and take responsibility to provide financially for that child. Do you understand me?

Me: Yes sir.

Every time I was making out with a girl in the backseat of my car and things were starting to get a little hot and heavy, I could hear my father say, "I'll beat you within an inch of your life..."

All through high school I remained a virgin. I had a low threshold to pain.
 
Boss 302 said:
All through high school I remained a virgin. I had a low threshold to pain.
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I figured it was more the girls' decisions that you remained a virgin.

OK, seriously...your point is well taken. I received similar talks, the one I remember the most was the "if you get put in jail, don't call me 'cause I'll let you rot there" talk. I didn't test him on that.

Those things were clearly wrong back then. Even to other teenagers, those things were looked down on. Girls that were overly promiscuous were "those kind" of girls. Guys who got in trouble with the law were considered hoodlums, even by the other kids.

These things are pretty normal now, especially in some sub-cultures.

Let's look at the other side of the acceptance issue. Cigarette smoking is way down. Why? Because society has turned against it. It's not cool any more, people don't like it. It's been made harder on people who smoke. Drinking and driving rates are down. Why? Society has turned against it. Law enforcement has gotten pretty serious about it and insurance companies have made it difficult on DUI offenders. We have little tolerance for it anymore.

What if we (society) turned against having children out of wedlock or in a single-parent situation like that? What we society started shunning men who knock women up and run? What if society turned against the taxpayers supporting able-bodied people who won't work? What if society turned against all the crap restaurants feed us?

Point being...accepting something typically results in more of it. Rejecting something typically decreases the instances of it.
 
One thing which should be clarified is what is immoral. What makes it immoral? One universal among a lot of religions is what we sometimes call the "Golden Rule." And that's how I view things. If two men or two women want a relationship, have at it. It doesn't affect me. On the other hand, someone who has an affair is hurting another human being. Teen pregnancy affects another human being. Two teens going at it...risky, but we're sexual beings. And more of that went on in the past than we care to admit. Since this is a fairly private part of the forum, I'll admit it: I like sex.

And I can't help but look at teen pregnancy. Abstinence is a great way to prevent it. So, what about states that teach "abstinence only" sex education? I figured ThinkProgress was a liberal source. Those crazy liberals want our youth to have crazy wild sex and abandon their moral upbringing. Other sources support ThinkProgress:

https://psmag.com/colorado-may-have...-bed-once-and-for-all-673c4cebed40#.x39f3d767
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117935

Abstinence only doesn't seem to work. Is homosexuality immoral? What makes it immoral? What about gender issues? What makes them immoral?

Jesus had it right in Matthew 7:12, and all the other religions and non-religions had it right. A little empathy is a great start for morality. No wonder everyone wanted Jesus killed. He was onto a real foundation for morality.
 
lotstodo said:
True, but the contention seems to be that if we are more accepting of something we get more of it. Things like that stupid MTV show have been mentioned in many conversations similar to this one as an example of how we glorify teen pregnancy and we will get more of it. Obviously that isn't the case here.

As for teens having sex, let me know if you find a cure for that one. I know a few young ladies in our family I would like to have that vaccination.
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I've read several sources that say the show Teen Mom has played a part in the decline in teen pregnancy. If you ever watch the show you'll see that there is definitely no glorifying it.
 
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