Can Social Acceptance Encourage Immorality?

Guard Dad

Guard Dad

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I had a good phone conversation last week with our ole buddy Stradial, and in it I referenced the gist of a speech Newt Gingrich gave years ago regarding teenage / out-of-wedlock pregnancy. Newt made the point that it's on the increase partly because we don't look down on it anymore. Back when many of us were younger, a girl getting pregnant while still in school was a major no-no, but now it seems to have become socially acceptable.

I see the same trend happening for many other social issues. The transgender issue is one that we've discussed a lot recently. Used to it was a relatively rare occurrence and we thought people who did it were weirdos, but now it's becoming more common. We're passing laws and policy to make it easier for transgenders to integrate into society, and many have even called Bruce Jenner a hero for making his 'journey' public.

We've been making homosexuality more mainstream for some time now, and the increased attention has resulted in same-sex marriage becoming legal all over the US.

Even issues such as sexual promiscuity, swinging, multiple partners, etc have become much more accepted by today's society than they once were.

I question whether this is really a good thing, or have we just opened the door to more of it by being so accepting of it? Have we, in the name of love and kindness, lowered our moral standards and allowed more immorality into our society?

Discuss...
 
Back in the late '60's and through the '70's "free" sex was a thing. People got over it and those people are the church and civic leaders of today. In many ways we are more conservative socially in our retirement years than our parents were. We live in a youth culture and things that seem just fine then are not so fine if we later see consequences.

Not all moral questions are based in reason. Some are based in religeon, some in tradition, but most in a universal understanding of right and wrong. The majority of the ten commandments involve not doing harm to others and this concept requires no belief in a deiety to be understood. These are the "morals" that will always win out and stand the test of time
once the real consequences are understood.

Other morals and traditions have and will be forever challenged by popular society as surely as Jeanie's belly button was once taboo. Call it progress, call it a sin, but things change. As long as those changes involve no harm to others perhaps they are not as important as we think they are now.
 
Lots of things used to be unacceptable in public. Things change, times change. It was once unacceptable to keep special needs children at home. They used to lock them away. They were weirdos and not socially normal or accepted. Just one of many examples and it does apply to this subject because social acceptance occurred with this change. It was a very good thing and some of the things you mention are too. While teen pregnancy is accepted now (not the best of things), they are also having the baby, keeping the baby or giving the baby up for adoption. While there is still a long way to go, those that are gay or transgendered do not have to hide anymore. (overall) I hope to see a decrease in suicide because of this. I see good things that can come out of people being more accepting of others.

Your moral standards depend on the individual.
 
Regarding social issues, I couldn't care less what someone does in their private life (well, except for the guy and his mother that I posted about yesterday...that's just wrong for many reasons). If they want to 'transition' to the opposite sex then be my guest. If they want to have sex with someone of the same sex...go ahead. I may not agree with these actions but it's none of my business and doesn't directly affect me in my daily life. As long as they are productive members of society then I say 'live and let live'.
 
cptlo306 said:
Regarding social issues, I couldn't care less what someone does in their private life (well, except for the guy and his mother that I posted about yesterday...that's just wrong for many reasons). If they want to 'transition' to the opposite sex then be my guest. If they want to have sex with someone of the same sex...go ahead. I may not agree with these actions but it's none of my business and doesn't directly affect me in my daily life. As long as they are productive members of society then I say 'live and let live'.
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This.
 
cptlo306 said:
Regarding social issues, I couldn't care less what someone does in their private life (well, except for the guy and his mother that I posted about yesterday...that's just wrong for many reasons). If they want to 'transition' to the opposite sex then be my guest. If they want to have sex with someone of the same sex...go ahead. I may not agree with these actions but it's none of my business and doesn't directly affect me in my daily life. As long as they are productive members of society then I say 'live and let live'.
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I agree in principle; but the reality of it is that some of these things can directly affect the rest of us.

The issue with transgenders and bathrooms is an example of this. Children born to teens and/or out of wedlock can as well. The taxpayers end up taking care of a lot of them, and a good argument can be made that the crime and incarceration rates are dramatically affected by it.
 
lotstodo said:
Back in the late '60's and through the '70's "free" sex was a thing. People got over it and those people are the church and civic leaders of today. In many ways we are more conservative socially in our retirement years than our parents were. We live in a youth culture and things that seem just fine then are not so fine if we later see consequences.

Not all moral questions are based in reason. Some are based in religion, some in tradition, but most in a universal understanding of right and wrong. The majority of the ten commandments involve not doing harm to others and this concept requires no belief in a deity to be understood. These are the "morals" that will always win out and stand the test of time
once the real consequences are understood.

Other morals and traditions have and will be forever challenged by popular society as surely as Jeanie's belly button was once taboo. Call it progress, call it a sin, but things change. As long as those changes involve no harm to others perhaps they are not as important as we think they are now.
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Not everyone got over it. Newt's argument was that this trend came from the hippies (he called them "counter culture"), and that is what has led to the hyper-acceptance trend.
 
Guard Dad said:
I agree in principle; but the reality of it is that some of these things can directly affect the rest of us.

The issue with transgenders and bathrooms is an example of this. Children born to teens and/or out of wedlock can as well. The taxpayers end up taking care of a lot of them, and a good argument can be made that the crime and incarceration rates are dramatically affected by it.
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That's why I put the "As long as they are productive members of society" part in there. Sure, there will be people that will abuse the situation and take advantage but you can't punish all the others who are productive members of society for the bad acts of a few.
 
cptlo306 said:
That's why I put the "As long as they are productive members of society" part in there. Sure, there will be people that will abuse the situation and take advantage but you can't punish all the others who are productive members of society for the bad acts of a few.
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I'm not suggesting we punish anyone; just that we might be counter productive by being so accepting or even glorifying a lot of this stuff. Regarding the transgender issue; I suspect that this being "the new thing" will push more people to have gender reassignment, and many of them will later regret it.
 
Referencing cptlo's thread about the mother and son having sex...

This issue has not (yet) been accepted by society. If/when it is, do you think we'll see more of it?
 
Guard Dad said:
I'm not suggesting we punish anyone; just that we might be counter productive by being so accepting or even glorifying a lot of this stuff. Regarding the transgender issue; I suspect that this being "the new thing" will push more people to have gender reassignment, and many of them will later regret it.
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How would them regretting it impact me or you at all? Assuming they don't use that as an excuse to commit crimes or become an unproductive member of society, it wouldn't.
 
Can Social Acceptance Encourage Immorality?

Absolutamente. All we have to do to find that answer is just look around.
 
cptlo306 said:
How would them regretting it impact me or you at all? Assuming they don't use that as an excuse to commit crimes or become an unproductive member of society, it wouldn't.
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It may not. But we, as a society, might not be doing what is best for people if we continue to condone certain things.
 
Guard Dad said:
Before I answer, have we not always done so?

We, as a society, make laws, we set social norms, we determine the universal rights and wrongs that LTD mentioned above.
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Let me ask the question a different way....who determines what is immoral? Something that is immoral to me may not be to you. As long as that something doesn't directly impact someone else's freedom, who cares if some people think it's immoral?
 
cptlo306 said:
Let me ask the question a different way....who determines what is immoral? Something that is immoral to me may not be to you. As long as that something doesn't directly impact someone else's freedom, who cares if some people think it's immoral?
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Certainly, individuals will have different standards. I'm referring more to the universal rules we have.

EX: Murder, theft, etc is wrong. Most of us would think cheating on a spouse is wrong.

We, as a society, have always determined those. Perhaps my use of "immoral" was not the best term, but it's what popped into my head.
 
Guard Dad said:
Certainly, individuals will have different standards. I'm referring more to the universal rules we have.

EX: Murder, theft, etc is wrong. Most of us would think cheating on a spouse is wrong.

We, as a society, have always determined those. Perhaps my use of "immoral" was not the best term, but it's what popped into my head.
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Understood. Those things you listed (murder, theft, cheating) all have victims so it makes sense that they would be considered wrong. Two people of the same sex having consensual sex has no victim. Neither does someone wanting to transition to the opposite sex. Again, these things may not be OK with everyone but in my opinion, we should 'live and let live'.
 
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