BSA Leaders

[Madea]

Need your thoughts. What's going on?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/boy-scouts-consider-lifting-ban-on-gay-leaders.html?_r=0

 

[naturegirl]

Need your thoughts. What's going on?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/boy-scouts-consider-lifting-ban-on-gay-leaders.html?_r=0

I know many that will be extremely upset over this. What BSA has done is take the responsibility and repercussions off the BSA and put it into the hands of the Chartered Organizations, most of which are churches. The Chartered Organizations are going to back off this completely, it will be the demise of BSA. Churches are not going to publicly admit they won't allow anyone that is gay to be a leader. They will just stop sponsoring Troops/Packs.

It's a horrible decision, one which will eventually destroy the organization. They're only doing this for financial reasons, many have quit contributing because of their stance on gay leaders. It's all about the money. I look for membership to dramatically decrease in the very near future.

I know gay does not equal pedophile, however leaders are role models for many boys that don't have male figures in their lives. An openly gay leader will give the "OK" (not necessarily verbal) to lead some boys that are confused about their sexuality, to a life style they may regret later. I had first hand experience with this in my Girl Scout Troop.

Yep, Eagle Scout will no longer have the same meaning it once did.

It's not a good day for Scouting.

 

[MamaHog]

Need your thoughts. What's going on?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/boy-scouts-consider-lifting-ban-on-gay-leaders.html?_r=0

I know many that will be extremely upset over this. What BSA has done is take the responsibility and repercussions off the BSA and put it into the hands of the Chartered Organizations, most of which are churches. The Chartered Organizations are going to back off this completely, it will be the demise of BSA. Churches are not going to publicly admit they won't allow anyone that is gay to be a leader. They will just stop sponsoring Troops/Packs.

It's a horrible decision, one which will eventually destroy the organization. They're only doing this for financial reasons, many have quit contributing because of their stance on gay leaders. It's all about the money. I look for membership to dramatically decrease in the very near future.

I know gay does not equal pedophile, however leaders are role models for many boys that don't have male figures in their lives. An openly gay leader will give the "OK" (not necessarily verbal) to lead some boys that are confused about their sexuality, to a life style they may regret later. I had first hand experience with this in my Girl Scout Troop.

Yep, Eagle Scout will no longer have the same meaning it once did.

It's not a good day for Scouting.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Why not? If a boy works for and earns Eagle Scout, what does it matter if the leader is gay or not. I may be missing something....I am trying to read through while taking work calls afterall.

 

[naturegirl]

MH, I believe the requirements will change for Eagle Scout to attract more membership, it will become easier because there will be many turning away from scouting.

Without a strong membership, the BSA is doomed. There are thousands of parents that will just pull their boys out of the program and the churches will no longer charter units.

Yes, he can earn the rank but it won't be the same as it was before this decision.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I think it is a good decision. I also think losing sponsorship's, backing, and people (both groups and individuals) being upset with discrimination played a huge roll into this decision.

 

[ShoeDiva]

MH, I believe the requirements will change for Eagle Scout to attract more membership, it will become easier because there will be many turning away from scouting.

Without a strong membership, the BSA is doomed. There are thousands of parents that will just pull their boys out of the program and the churches will no longer charter units.

Yes, he can earn the rank but it won't be the same as it was before this decision.

I think there are more people that are accepting of people being different, than aren't and you might see a membership drop at first, but look at all the people that avoided it because of their stance. I do not believe that you will see a decline in membership for long.

Many churches have gay members, why would they care if a troop met there and scouts or leaders were gay? To me that makes no sense. :dunno

 

[naturegirl]

I think it is a good decision. I also think losing sponsorship's, backing, and people (both groups and individuals) being upset with discrimination played a huge roll into this decision.

Bullcrap, it's about money, it's about he BSA loosing funding for standing on their principles. They caved, not for the kids or because of discrimination but because they want contributions.

It is a private organization, not a public theater, be careful what you wish for........you just might get it.

 

[LisaC]

Need your thoughts. What's going on?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/boy-scouts-consider-lifting-ban-on-gay-leaders.html?_r=0

I know many that will be extremely upset over this. What BSA has done is take the responsibility and repercussions off the BSA and put it into the hands of the Chartered Organizations, most of which are churches. The Chartered Organizations are going to back off this completely, it will be the demise of BSA. Churches are not going to publicly admit they won't allow anyone that is gay to be a leader. They will just stop sponsoring Troops/Packs.

It's a horrible decision, one which will eventually destroy the organization. They're only doing this for financial reasons, many have quit contributing because of their stance on gay leaders. It's all about the money. I look for membership to dramatically decrease in the very near future.

I know gay does not equal pedophile, however leaders are role models for many boys that don't have male figures in their lives. An openly gay leader will give the "OK" (not necessarily verbal) to lead some boys that are confused about their sexuality, to a life style they may regret later. I had first hand experience with this in my Girl Scout Troop.

Yep, Eagle Scout will no longer have the same meaning it once did.

It's not a good day for Scouting.

You and I will never agree on this, but that's okay - I still :love you! BUT, I disagree with that statement and for the one GS leader you have had first hand experience with, I have at least a dozen gay men who are amazing parents, strong leaders, and have raised their kids to be great people. And, to my knowledge, none of those children are gay, but if they were, they would still be amazing kids.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I think it is a good decision. I also think losing sponsorship's, backing, and people (both groups and individuals) being upset with discrimination played a huge roll into this decision.

Bullcrap, it's about money, it's about he BSA loosing funding for standing on their principles. They caved, not for the kids or because of discrimination but because they want contributions.

It is a private organization, not a public theater, be careful what you wish for........you just might get it.

I mentioned money, but that not being the only reason. I really hope it wasn't because if it was just money then really are those the people/organization you (general not saying you) hold in such high regard?

I agree with it being private and they can do what they want based on their principles. That is why I backed UPS and Intel and the others being private organizations and not donating to BSA because it was against their principles.

Again, I hope money was just one contributing factor. I think BSA is a great organization for boys. All of them.

 

[naturegirl]

Need your thoughts. What's going on?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/boy-scouts-consider-lifting-ban-on-gay-leaders.html?_r=0

I know many that will be extremely upset over this. What BSA has done is take the responsibility and repercussions off the BSA and put it into the hands of the Chartered Organizations, most of which are churches. The Chartered Organizations are going to back off this completely, it will be the demise of BSA. Churches are not going to publicly admit they won't allow anyone that is gay to be a leader. They will just stop sponsoring Troops/Packs.

It's a horrible decision, one which will eventually destroy the organization. They're only doing this for financial reasons, many have quit contributing because of their stance on gay leaders. It's all about the money. I look for membership to dramatically decrease in the very near future.

I know gay does not equal pedophile, however leaders are role models for many boys that don't have male figures in their lives. An openly gay leader will give the "OK" (not necessarily verbal) to lead some boys that are confused about their sexuality, to a life style they may regret later. I had first hand experience with this in my Girl Scout Troop.

Yep, Eagle Scout will no longer have the same meaning it once did.

It's not a good day for Scouting.

You and I will never agree on this, but that's okay - I still :love you! BUT, I disagree with that statement and for the one GS leader you have had first hand experience with, I have at least a dozen gay men who are amazing parents, strong leaders, and have raised their kids to be great people. And, to my knowledge, none of those children are gay, but if they were, they would still be amazing kids.

Yep, we do have differing opinions but I still :love you, too. Having spent the last 25+ years in scouting, I will say that there are at least 50% of these kids that have no male present in their lives, they are being raised by single moms. I applaud your friends because they are stable, loving parents. Their kids are in a better position than many kids in the scouting program. Some boys are vulnerable, confused and are too shy or ashamed to ask questions, I'm guessing your friend's kids are not.

With that said, some of these kids look at scout leaders as some type of God, Idol worship if you please. They will "try to be just like them" because they may be the only people they look up to. It's confusing enough to be a teenager struggling with their sexuality, but I believe this could lead them to make some decisions they may regret later in life.

Boy scouts is a perfect avenue for pedophiles to get what they want, this decision will move the programs from faith based sponsorship to larger units with leadership that we may not know. Right now, units are pretty much neighborhood (school district) based. Chartered organizations are going to run away from this fast.

 

[MamaHog]

MH, I believe the requirements will change for Eagle Scout to attract more membership, it will become easier because there will be many turning away from scouting.

Without a strong membership, the BSA is doomed. There are thousands of parents that will just pull their boys out of the program and the churches will no longer charter units.

Yes, he can earn the rank but it won't be the same as it was before this decision.

I think there are more people that are accepting of people being different, than aren't and you might see a membership drop at first, but look at all the people that avoided it because of their stance. I do not believe that you will see a decline in membership for long.

Many churches have gay members, why would they care if a troop met there and scouts or leaders were gay? To me that makes no sense. :dunno

I have to agree. I highly doubt that this is the beginning of the end for BSA. They have been scrutinized in the past and survived. I also agree that there is a possibility of more people joining because they feel that they will no longer be discriminated against. I actually know quite a few families that haven't allowed their sons to join for just that reason.

 

[unionmom]

There are leaders in the BSA that openly violate BSA policy regarding tobacco and alcohol around the boys. Are they setting a strong positive example for the boys?

I just don't see this decision being as detrimental to the BSA as you do, NG. In areas where gays are a larger more open part of the community they will now be able to be more involved in what their children are doing. IN areas where it is not accepted there will be packs and troops without gay members. Parents have the choice to go to the pack/troop they want for their child.

This is still a private organization and so many of the charters are still through churches ... they will still be able to legally block "unwanted" leaders and members in communities where they choose to do so.

Also, I just do not see how this change is in any way indicative of rank requirement changes. I know your love of the organization, NG but I think you're letting yourself worry too much about something that I just don't see happening.

 

[LisaC]

Need your thoughts. What's going on?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/boy-scouts-consider-lifting-ban-on-gay-leaders.html?_r=0

I know many that will be extremely upset over this. What BSA has done is take the responsibility and repercussions off the BSA and put it into the hands of the Chartered Organizations, most of which are churches. The Chartered Organizations are going to back off this completely, it will be the demise of BSA. Churches are not going to publicly admit they won't allow anyone that is gay to be a leader. They will just stop sponsoring Troops/Packs.

It's a horrible decision, one which will eventually destroy the organization. They're only doing this for financial reasons, many have quit contributing because of their stance on gay leaders. It's all about the money. I look for membership to dramatically decrease in the very near future.

I know gay does not equal pedophile, however leaders are role models for many boys that don't have male figures in their lives. An openly gay leader will give the "OK" (not necessarily verbal) to lead some boys that are confused about their sexuality, to a life style they may regret later. I had first hand experience with this in my Girl Scout Troop.

Yep, Eagle Scout will no longer have the same meaning it once did.

It's not a good day for Scouting.

You and I will never agree on this, but that's okay - I still :love you! BUT, I disagree with that statement and for the one GS leader you have had first hand experience with, I have at least a dozen gay men who are amazing parents, strong leaders, and have raised their kids to be great people. And, to my knowledge, none of those children are gay, but if they were, they would still be amazing kids.

Yep, we do have differing opinions but I still :love you, too. Having spent the last 25+ years in scouting, I will say that there are at least 50% of these kids that have no male present in their lives, they are being raised by single moms. I applaud your friends because they are stable, loving parents. Their kids are in a better position than many kids in the scouting program. Some boys are vulnerable, confused and are too shy or ashamed to ask questions, I'm guessing your friend's kids are not.

With that said, some of these kids look at scout leaders as some type of God, Idol worship if you please. They will "try to be just like them" because they may be the only people they look up to. It's confusing enough to be a teenager struggling with their sexuality, but I believe this could lead them to make some decisions they may regret later in life.

Boy scouts is a perfect avenue for pedophiles to get what they want, this decision will move the programs from faith based sponsorship to larger units with leadership that we may not know. Right now, units are pretty much neighborhood (school district) based. Chartered organizations are going to run away from this fast.

But I think you are assuming that these leaders will be wearing a big sign that says, "I'm gay!!" and that they might encourage kids to follow suit. I have yet to meet a gay person that would ever encourage their kids to be gay.

I think the big stigma with gay men is that they aren't "real" men and that makes me sad.

 

[unionmom]

Boy scouts is a perfect avenue for pedophiles to get what they want...

So not to take the cheap shot here but ... have they really been doing such a great job of protecting kids from these predators? Look at all that has come out in recent years about how the BSA has covered up so many cases of abuse. I just don't think the pedophile aspect is a valid argument for this issue.

(I do know that they have changed policy over recent years to try to make them safer but that doesn't take away what happened.)

 

[ShoeDiva]

Need your thoughts. What's going on?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/boy-scouts-consider-lifting-ban-on-gay-leaders.html?_r=0

I know many that will be extremely upset over this. What BSA has done is take the responsibility and repercussions off the BSA and put it into the hands of the Chartered Organizations, most of which are churches. The Chartered Organizations are going to back off this completely, it will be the demise of BSA. Churches are not going to publicly admit they won't allow anyone that is gay to be a leader. They will just stop sponsoring Troops/Packs.

It's a horrible decision, one which will eventually destroy the organization. They're only doing this for financial reasons, many have quit contributing because of their stance on gay leaders. It's all about the money. I look for membership to dramatically decrease in the very near future.

I know gay does not equal pedophile, however leaders are role models for many boys that don't have male figures in their lives. An openly gay leader will give the "OK" (not necessarily verbal) to lead some boys that are confused about their sexuality, to a life style they may regret later. I had first hand experience with this in my Girl Scout Troop.

Yep, Eagle Scout will no longer have the same meaning it once did.

It's not a good day for Scouting.

You and I will never agree on this, but that's okay - I still :love you! BUT, I disagree with that statement and for the one GS leader you have had first hand experience with, I have at least a dozen gay men who are amazing parents, strong leaders, and have raised their kids to be great people. And, to my knowledge, none of those children are gay, but if they were, they would still be amazing kids.

Yep, we do have differing opinions but I still :love you, too. Having spent the last 25+ years in scouting, I will say that there are at least 50% of these kids that have no male present in their lives, they are being raised by single moms. I applaud your friends because they are stable, loving parents. Their kids are in a better position than many kids in the scouting program. Some boys are vulnerable, confused and are too shy or ashamed to ask questions, I'm guessing your friend's kids are not.

With that said, some of these kids look at scout leaders as some type of God, Idol worship if you please. They will "try to be just like them" because they may be the only people they look up to. It's confusing enough to be a teenager struggling with their sexuality, but I believe this could lead them to make some decisions they may regret later in life.

Boy scouts is a perfect avenue for pedophiles to get what they want, this decision will move the programs from faith based sponsorship to larger units with leadership that we may not know. Right now, units are pretty much neighborhood (school district) based. Chartered organizations are going to run away from this fast.

I really have a hard time believe this would be the norm. I am not saying it would not happen, I am sure it has, but in general, I do not believe it. Many kids have many gay leaders in their lives, band directors, coaches, drama teachers. They do field trips, cook-outs, etc with them. Unless you never let someone different near your child the possibility will exist that they speak to someone about their sexuality that just might be gay.

So how do you stop the pedophiles? Better background checks? Only two adults at all times? This should be the norm anyway, is it not?

 

[ShoeDiva]

But I think you are assuming that these leaders will be wearing a big sign that says, "I'm gay!!" and that they might encourage kids to follow suit. I have yet to meet a gay person that would ever encourage their kids to be gay.

I think the big stigma with gay men is that they aren't "real" men and that makes me sad.

I do not know but one man that it is obvious. All the others...you would never know and many when they find out I get this look:

And I agree.

 

[naturegirl]

BSA had effectively transferred this issue to religious institutions, they are not going to take this responsibility...........BSA just pushed it down the road and that's sad. If there are few chartered organizations where are the boys going to meet?? Are parents willing to drive 10-15 miles once a week for a 1 hour scout meeting??

 

[naturegirl]

Boy scouts is a perfect avenue for pedophiles to get what they want...

So not to take the cheap shot here but ... have they really been doing such a great job of protecting kids from these predators? Look at all that has come out in recent years about how the BSA has covered up so many cases of abuse. I just don't think the pedophile aspect is a valid argument for this issue.

(I do know that they have changed policy over recent years to try to make them safer but that doesn't take away what happened.)

Over the last 20 years you will find BSA has indeed changed policy dramatically to protect the boys. No it doesn't take away what happened but there is nothing that will.

Many leaders have hidden their sexual orientation for years, do you think they will now that BSA has said they don't care?? Does anyone honestly think kids don't know which of their teachers are gay and which are straight?? You under estimate them if you do.

I still stand this is a financial based decision, it's not about what's best for the kids but what they think is best for BSA contributions.

 

[unionmom]

Gays and pedophiles are not the same thing. And there will still be plenty of charters for the packs/troops. BSA will not lower standards. In many areas there will be no noticeable difference in any aspect of the scouting experience.

 

[ShoeDiva]

BSA had effectively transferred this issue to religious institutions, they are not going to take this responsibility...........BSA just pushed it down the road and that's sad. If there are few chartered organizations where are the boys going to meet?? Are parents willing to drive 10-15 miles once a week for a 1 hour scout meeting??

Do all troops meet at churches? What about schools? What about the churches that are more accepting of different lifestyles?

I used to drive my sister across town for Brownies/Girl Scouts. :dunno