A couple of thoughts I have

I'm Floored

I'm Floored

Lover of BS!
As I've perused some of the threads on our board, I've become a little bothered by some of the discussion regarding homosexuality.

I hope you all have spent enough time with me here on the board to know my heart and my intent. I also pray that I can "speak" clearly so that I can convey my thoughts with clarity.

My thoughts here really only pertain to Christians. If you aren't a follower of Jesus, you may have different views than what I will state, and I completely understand those different points of view.

But pertaining to fellow believers: how do we make our judgments about what sin is? Do we decide for ourselves? Do we listen to the Holy Spirit? Do we look to the Holy Bible for definition?

I ask this because the Word of God calls homosexuality sin. It is actually called an abomination against God. (I've never met a believer that thinks homosexuals should be shunned or treated badly for their actions.)

As believers, are we not supposed to aspire to a life that is holy and set apart? I know that although I am nowhere close, my desire is to live my life in such a way that it is pleasing to God. As I walk that journey, I can tell you that I find things that are sinful (by Biblical definition) to be more and more undesirable to me.

Today, I read the thread about homosexuality, in which a few people (GD being one who spoke of being "disgusted" by homosexual acts. (I don't know the exact words used, but that's the gist.)

Others stated that his opinions were "hang ups." (Again, I'm not sure I used the exact words.) The implication was that if any of us have adverse feelings regarding any type of homosexual intimacy, it is our own "problem" and something we need to "get over."

I can understand society in general having this viewpoint. What I don't understand is any Christian who uses the Word of God as their own moral compass chastising another for speaking against something that the Bible calls sin.

That is all.
 
My thought to that is those people that you are repulsed and disgusted by are loving people and should be treated as such. Using words like that is not helpful to them or to you and some do have a relationship with God. Their sin is no more sinful than mine and I am not going to judge another (and yes judging comes into play when they are believers and have a relationship with God and a church) based on that.


(This is all general "you" not you. :) )

I also want to put this out there as food for thought. Have you ever considered that some interpretations in the Bible are open for different interpretations? I have. I never thought that (growing up) until I spoke with others outside my faith and have heard them speak of things that they completely believe, have scripture that can back it up, and it is totally different from what I believe and the same scripture to back up my belief. :) (It has happened right here on this board.) I always leave the "what if I am wrong or my interpretation is and theirs is right" thought out there. I think everyone's walk with God would be so much better if they left the stones for throwing at home and worried about their walk.
 
Let me be clear - I completely agree that homosexuals (as individuals) are loving people and should be loved - especially by Christians. Please don't forget my former "life" as a dancer. You might be surprised how many gay friends I have!

What I'm speaking to is the "judgment" of fellow believers by those who feel their aversion to seeing homosexual ACTS is fear, a problem, or a hang up.

Most Christians I know desire a closer relationship with their Savior. They want to be more like Him. In that same vein, they begin to turn away from lifestyles, actions, etc. which God speaks against. Most attribute the change to conviction of the Holy Spirit.

While an argument can be made that some Scripture is open to interpretation, in this instance, are you going to say that the Bible does NOT call homosexual acts sin?

(That really is a rhetorical question, because the purpose of my thread is not to discuss homosexuality, homosexuals, or any other type of sin. My purpose is to understand how a Christian can call someone's personal conviction "a problem.")
 
I'm Floored said:
Let me be clear - I completely agree that homosexuals (as individuals) are loving people and should be loved - especially by Christians. Please don't forget my former "life" as a dancer. You might be surprised how many gay friends I have!

What I'm speaking to is the "judgment" of fellow believers by those who feel their aversion to seeing homosexual ACTS is fear, a problem, or a hang up.

Most Christians I know desire a closer relationship with their Savior. They want to be more like Him. In that same vein, they begin to turn away from lifestyles, actions, etc. which God speaks against. Most attribute the change to conviction of the Holy Spirit.

While an argument can be made that some Scripture is open to interpretation, in this instance, are you going to say that the Bible does NOT call homosexual acts sin?

(That really is a rhetorical question, because the purpose of my thread is not to discuss homosexuality, homosexuals, or any other type of sin. My purpose is to understand how a Christian can call someone's personal conviction "a problem.")
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:)) I figured you might know a few gay people.

I believe in my heart that many (and I do not mean all) that do say things against homosexuals (can replace word with Black, Jews, purple people or aliens) do it in fear, or as an issue. I do not believe some of what is coming out of there mouth is what God says, they might use that, but the environment they were raised in. I believe that more of the hang-ups and issues they have are within themselves.

Obviously there are exceptions to that, but I do not see hatred or not accepting in any way, shape, or form from a christian to be productive in their personal walk with God.
 
ShoeDiva said:
Obviously there are exceptions to that, but I do not see hatred or not accepting in any way, shape, or form from a christian to be productive in their personal walk with God.
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Not accepting BEHAVIOR defined in the Word of God as sin is not productive in a person's walk with God?

:faint
 
I'm Floored said:
ShoeDiva said:
Obviously there are exceptions to that, but I do not see hatred or not accepting in any way, shape, or form from a christian to be productive in their personal walk with God.
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Not accepting BEHAVIOR defined in the Word of God as sin is not productive in a person's walk with God?

:faint
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Is HATRED acceptable to you? ? ? You believe that is productive?

:faint
 
Hatred of sin is a godly trait. Hatred of people is not. (God commands us to love people.)

Again, I point out that I am talking about the judgment of Christians who oppose BEHAVIOR. Not people. (I'm certain that I've made that clear several times.)

Is it acceptable for Christians to expect other Christians to accept behavior that the Bible defines as sin, or be labeled as having hang ups or problems?
 
I'm Floored said:
Hatred of sin is a godly trait. Hatred of people is not. (God commands us to love people.)

Again, I point out that I am talking about the judgment of Christians who oppose BEHAVIOR. Not people. (I'm certain that I've made that clear several times.)

Is it acceptable for Christians to expect other Christians to accept behavior that the Bible defines as sin, or be labeled as having hang ups or problems?
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Okay so since my answers are not what you want I will just say YES. ;D
 
As the starter of those threads, I will say that I do not believe that Jesus would call any of these people an abomination or treat them differently, nor would he expect us to. Nothing bothers me more than seeing people who live, look or act differently from others get treated like lepers because of their sin. I sin - heck, there are some days I sin before my feet hit the floor. But, Jesus still loves me!!

My whole point in those threads is to push people out of their comfort zones so the next time they encounter someone who is different, they will treat them with kindness instead of treating them like freaks.
 
I wasn't out of my comfort zone. I try to treat everyone kindly. I admitted being somewhat conflicted toward gay marriages. I don't want to hurt anyone I care about, but I'm not on board with gay marriage. I have no intention of judging their hearts.
 
You can love the person, but hate the sin.

As a Christian and knowing homosexual acts are sinful; should Christians support gay marriages? I would see that as a contradiction to God's word because if you support gay marriage, you support the sin of homosexual acts.

I have a cousin who is gay. I also have a nephew who is gay. I love them both, but I don't like the sin they're living.
 
Madea said:
I wasn't out of my comfort zone. I try to treat everyone kindly. I admitted being somewhat conflicted toward gay marriages. I don't want to hurt anyone I care about, but I'm not on board with gay marriage. I have no intention of judging their hearts.
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I am too Madea.
 
It's not my choice nor is it my decision. I will say the more accepting we become of "sins" the further we move away from God. The Devil is always there, always whispering that it won't hurt you, just leave it alone. Loving people while accepting their sin goes against everything I was taught.

Acceptance and tolerance are two different things. I have many people I love that have alternative lifestyles, have committed crimes and have a myriad of "problems". I tolerate it because it's really not my place to judge them. I'm kind and I love them, but never will I say it's right or wrong. Jesus loved everyone, no matter what "sin" you were part of. He forgave all of us and continues to do so. I only pray to be as forgiving as he wants me to, it's hard, it's because I am merely human with many faults, "sins" of my own. I will continue to work on me and continue to hold strong to my beliefs and values because it's not about anyone else, but between me and Him.
 
Foxmeister said:
You can love the person, but hate the sin.

As a Christian and knowing homosexual acts are sinful; should Christians support gay marriages? I would see that as a contradiction to God's word because if you support gay marriage, you support the sin of homosexual acts.

I have a cousin who is gay. I also have a nephew who is gay. I love them both, but I don't like the sin they're living.
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yep true that! I have several gay family members. Do I love them any less because they are gay? NO, do I judge them, no. Do I want to see what they do in their lifestyle, no do I agree with their lifestyle, no. We have had long discussions about their lifestyle and Christianity. They have been ridiculed by Christians, talked bad about, told they were going to hell no matter what etc etc. They have asked me since I am a southern baptist Christian why I don't treat them that way since most Christians have that "holier than thou" mentality.

I explain to them...You love the people, hate the sin. I tell we are all sinners. NO one is perfect. No one sin is greater than the other in God's eyes. We are taught to love everyone. We may not agree with what they do or say, or even how they live, but it is not up to us (as individuals or Christians) to judge another person.
There are several verses that come to mind but one sticks out to me
James 4:12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Not sure that is exactly what you wanted IF, but that is my input =)
 
As Christians, one of the guides to set our behavior by is God's Word. The other would be the holy spirit that lives within us and guides us. Regarding His Word, it's not that complicated in my view. If it is flawed in any form, it is no good or worth the paper it is written on. It is either God's Word or it is not. If it is to be believed that God didn't mean what He clearly stated regarding homosexual activity as being "sin", then you can't count on the Bible for anything else that it claims or proclaims.

That being said, when questions are asked of people, such as those regarding this subject, you can't expect everyone to agree with your personal point of view. Of course sin is sin and I believe God loves all and will forgive if we repent. If you ask me if gay people can go to heaven, I would say YES, of course, but selecting portions of the Bible to dismiss as "misinterpreted" for our own purposes or to make us feel better about ourselves doesn't cut it.

The Bible further states that the preaching of the Gospel would be viewed as "foolisness" by the world. That is proven to be accurate every day and it is to be expected. If people feel better about themselves by supporting the gay lifestyle, that's a free and personal choice, but keep this in mind. Just as many are accepted for their lifestyle, the same acceptance should be shown to other's opinions on the subject if we are to maintain our attitude of tolerance.
 
LisaC said:
As the starter of those threads, I will say that I do not believe that Jesus would call any of these people an abomination or treat them differently, nor would he expect us to. Nothing bothers me more than seeing people who live, look or act differently from others get treated like lepers because of their sin. I sin - heck, there are some days I sin before my feet hit the floor. But, Jesus still loves me!!
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Sigh.

I thought I made that clear several times, especially when I wrote:
I'm Floored said:
Let me be clear - I completely agree that homosexuals (as individuals) are loving people and should be loved - especially by Christians.
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This thread is NOT about the judgment of homosexuals, nor the judgment of "their sin". While I'm not blind to the fact that some Christians can be unforgiving and hateful toward gays, I don't ever recall any one on this board being unkind in any way.

What I'm talking about is that some Christians voiced their aversion toward seeing the ACTS of homosexuality. Their aversion is based on, not their own definition of sin, but the fact that Scripture calls homosexuality sin. In response to that, they were told they had "a problem", "hang ups", or "fear".

I completely understand you wanting everyone - especially Christians to show homosexuals the love of Christ. It's what we're commanded by Jesus to do! But I don't understand "judging" other Christians as wrong for speaking out against the ACTS which are clearly defined by God (not man) as sin.

LisaC said:
My whole point in those threads is to push people out of their comfort zones so the next time they encounter someone who is different, they will treat them with kindness instead of treating them like freaks.
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Again, I completely understand that. I personally haven't witnessed anything like this, and I'm certain it hasn't happened here. I think we have a lot of people who show a lot of compassion and kindness to others who are different - in a multitude of ways.

To my knowledge, no one here has stood in judgment of homosexuals. They have stated that homosexuality (the acts) is sin. This comes from their understanding of the Bible. When we begin to tell fellow believers that they have hang ups for believing the Word of God, I think it's dangerous ground. Satan loves nothing better than when Christians are divided against one another.
 
Foxmeister said:
You can love the person, but hate the sin.

As a Christian and knowing homosexual acts are sinful; should Christians support gay marriages? I would see that as a contradiction to God's word because if you support gay marriage, you support the sin of homosexual acts.

I have a cousin who is gay. I also have a nephew who is gay. I love them both, but I don't like the sin they're living.
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While Gandhi isn't my favorite spiritual adviser, this quote is correct. And that principle is taught in Scripture. :)
 
Madea said:
I wasn't out of my comfort zone. I try to treat everyone kindly. I admitted being somewhat conflicted toward gay marriages. I don't want to hurt anyone I care about, but I'm not on board with gay marriage. I have no intention of judging their hearts.
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I understand why you feel that way. We love people, and want them to "feel" happy and fulfilled. This is one of those times when we have to trust that God knows better for us than we do for ourselves.

Proverbs 3:5-6 (NASB)
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
 
Grey Colson said:
As Christians, one of the guides to set our behavior by is God's Word. The other would be the holy spirit that lives within us and guides us. Regarding His Word, it's not that complicated in my view. If it is flawed in any form, it is no good or worth the paper it is written on. It is either God's Word or it is not. If it is to be believed that God didn't mean what He clearly stated regarding homosexual activity as being "sin", then you can't count on the Bible for anything else that it claims or proclaims.

That being said, when questions are asked of people, such as those regarding this subject, you can't expect everyone to agree with your personal point of view. Of course sin is sin and I believe God loves all and will forgive if we repent. If you ask me if gay people can go to heaven, I would say YES, of course, but selecting portions of the Bible to dismiss as "misinterpreted" for our own purposes or to make us feel better about ourselves doesn't cut it.

The Bible further states that the preaching of the Gospel would be viewed as "foolisness" by the world. That is proven to be accurate every day and it is to be expected. If people feel better about themselves by supporting the gay lifestyle, that's a free and personal choice, but keep this in mind. Just as many are accepted for their lifestyle, the same acceptance should be shown to other's opinions on the subject if we are to maintain our attitude of tolerance.
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:agreed
 
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