The Official Dallas Hwy Caucus and Primary Thread

Guard Dad said:
I'm not questioning civic duty, I'm questioning the real effect of that vote.

Please explain the difference in voting for a non-viable candidate vs staying at home, from a perspective of their real effects on the election.

. The end result of both are exactly the same. Neither viable candidate gets that vote, so it has zero effect
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I would argue that yes, the same candidate will win either way, but by voting for the libertarian a message can be sent to other disgruntled voters. Let's say that 20m voters do this and you get 45m for the dems, 35m for the GOP. That 20% is enough to give real hope for a third party to be viable in the future. The longest journey starts with the first small step.
 
Paxilpapa said:
I would argue that yes, the same candidate will win either way, but by voting for the libertarian a message can be sent to other disgruntled voters. Let's say that 20m voters do this and you get 45m for the dems, 35m for the GOP. That 20% is enough to give real hope for a third party to be viable in the future. The longest journey starts with the first small step.
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Sounds like a noble plan.

But, doesn't work that way, at all. How long have the Libertarians been trying this, and how much has their support grown? The only "message" sent is that the non-viable candidate failed. Again

The real journey starts when the right people are leading it.
 
Paxilpapa said:
I would argue that yes, the same candidate will win either way, but by voting for the libertarian a message can be sent to other disgruntled voters. Let's say that 20m voters do this and you get 45m for the dems, 35m for the GOP. That 20% is enough to give real hope for a third party to be viable in the future. The longest journey starts with the first small step.
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You're correct. As long as people hold their noses and vote for the party, there will never be a viable third party. Without a viable third party, it's politics as usual.
 
Guard Dad said:
Sounds like a noble plan.

But, doesn't work that way, at all. How long have the Libertarians been trying this, and how much has their support grown?

The real journey starts when the right people are leading it.
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Ross Perot started the Reform Party. Before he dropped out, he was leading Bush and Clinton in the polls. He dropped back in and ended up with 18.9% of the vote. Had he not dropped out, I think the momentum for his support would have won him the election.

Rand Paul is a Libertarian on economic issues. If he left the GOP and switched to the Libertarian Party, he could be the start the Libertarian Party needs. However, there would be those who would say Paul would be hurting the GOP and helping the Democrats by doing so.
 
Boss 302 said:
Ross Perot started the Reform Party. Before he dropped out, he was leading Bush and Clinton in the polls. He dropped back in and ended up with 18.9% of the vote. Had he not dropped out, I think the momentum for his support would have won him the election.

Rand Paul is a Libertarian on economic issues. If he left the GOP and switched to the Libertarian Party, he could be the start the Libertarian Party needs. However, there would be those who would say Paul would be hurting the GOP and helping the Democrats by doing so.
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How many electoral votes did Perot get?

Rand is a Republican because his daddy tried the Libertarian route. He got a whopping 1/2 of 1 percent.
 
Guard Dad said:
How many electoral votes did Perot get?

Rand is a Republican because his daddy tried the Libertarian route. He got a whopping 1/2 of 1 percent.
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You must have missed the part where Perot was leading both Bush and Clinton in the polls before he dropped out of the race. When he returned to the race, he discovered he had lost a lot of his support. Had he not dropped out, he could have won.

Ron Paul served as a representative from Texas. That didn't exactly give him any national name recognition. In 1984, he ran in the Republican primary for the US Senate and lost. He still didn't have national name recognition. Between then and 1987, when he left the Republican Party, he was not in politics. He ran for president under the Libertarian Party in 1987. He was unknown and underfunded to win a national election.

Perot started gaining national recognition in 1969 when he mounted an unsuccessful campaign to free American POWs in North Vietnam. In 1979, he sponsored efforts to rescue two EDS employees who were being held in prison in Iran. Perot hired a retired Army officer to train some of his employees, and they went to Iran. They were successful in getting the employees out of the country. Perot got a lot of attention for that. A book, On the Wings of Eagles, was written, and a TV movie of the same name was produced telling the story. Perot definitely had a lot of name recognition across the country.
 
Wake me up when a 3rd Party candidate wins, then we can discuss. All else is woulda, coulda, shoulda…but we can all dream.
 
It would require someone very well known, very well liked by almost everyone, very wealthy to fund the campaign, and probably a centrist to have a chance at winning while running as a third party candidate. The system is simply rigged for the two party system and I can't think of anyone that fits the description above.
 
Boss 302 said:
You must have missed the part where Perot was leading both Bush and Clinton in the polls before he dropped out of the race. When he returned to the race, he discovered he had lost a lot of his support. Had he not dropped out, he could have won.

Ron Paul served as a representative from Texas. That didn't exactly give him any national name recognition. In 1984, he ran in the Republican primary for the US Senate and lost. He still didn't have national name recognition. Between then and 1987, when he left the Republican Party, he was not in politics. He ran for president under the Libertarian Party in 1987. He was unknown and underfunded to win a national election.

Perot started gaining national recognition in 1969 when he mounted an unsuccessful campaign to free American POWs in North Vietnam. In 1979, he sponsored efforts to rescue two EDS employees who were being held in prison in Iran. Perot hired a retired Army officer to train some of his employees, and they went to Iran. They were successful in getting the employees out of the country. Perot got a lot of attention for that. A book, On the Wings of Eagles, was written, and a TV movie of the same name was produced telling the story. Perot definitely had a lot of name recognition across the country.
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Perot initially had good numbers because Larry King had a man crush for him. Perot got loads of air time to present his charts and stuff. He went downhill from there because he was a nut, and people started seeing that. So where is his "Reform Party" today? Gone. Why? No leaders. And that's my point...you can send all the "messages" you want, but without the right leadership at the helm, there aren't going anywhere.

Albert Einstein sad

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.​

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We're insane to think these 3rd parties will be successful until we do something different. ​

 
I mean...the Libertarians ran a reefer head for president not long ago.

Granted, smoking a doobie with Putin probably hasn't been tried, but...
 
I voted for Perot, I admit it. Sorta like Boss said in a different thread, it wasn’t a vote for Perot but a vote against the other candidates. I was young and dumb and still thought I could change the world.
 
J-man said:
I voted for Perot, I admit it. Sorta like Boss said in a different thread, it wasn’t a vote for Perot but a vote against the other candidates. I was young and dumb and still thought I could change the world.
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I was thinking about it for awhile. He made good sense and explained things where regular people could grasp it.

But once he started the stuff about George Bush coming after him with black helicopters, I was done.
 
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