Trump vetos it
- Thread starter Guard Dad
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JawJa
Driving Instructor
I am not sure it is un-constitutional...
The courts will decide that.
Hey... if you want to go after something and someone that is un-constitutional...
Here you go:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/434652-warren-calls-for-abolishing-electoral-college
Liz Warren is FOR ABOLISHING THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE. There’s a reason our Founding Fathers did not want direct democracy. She’s a threat to the Constitution!
Oh, I forgot...
We only holler constitution when the right is on the borderline...
We let the left do what they want to...
Never-mind...
The courts will decide that.
Hey... if you want to go after something and someone that is un-constitutional...
Here you go:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/434652-warren-calls-for-abolishing-electoral-college
Liz Warren is FOR ABOLISHING THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE. There’s a reason our Founding Fathers did not want direct democracy. She’s a threat to the Constitution!
Oh, I forgot...
We only holler constitution when the right is on the borderline...
We let the left do what they want to...
Never-mind...
JawJa
Driving Instructor
It would appear 'we the people' are growing a set (finally)...
And standing up to congress-critters who are not representing them:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...rom-gop-event-over-border-wall-emergency-vote
Personal comment: It is waaaaay past time for this kind of behavior!!!
And standing up to congress-critters who are not representing them:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...rom-gop-event-over-border-wall-emergency-vote
Personal comment: It is waaaaay past time for this kind of behavior!!!
I'm not so sure this is unconstitutional.. but I do worry about the precedent it sets.
I've been watching how things work in Washington for many years. One thing I've noticed is that most everyone in the federal government is hesitant to steo outside the normal procedural realm and try some of these ideas that fall into grey areas.
I'm not saying we should never push the envelope, but when we do step outside of normal protocol, we run many risks, including the SCOTUS ruling an action unconstitutional as they did with the line item, veto, or setting a new precedent that could used inappropriately at another time.
One concern I have would be if one of the crazy new bread of Democrats use the national emergency declaration to advance parts of their Socialist agenda.
The good part is that we still have a safeguard in place. Congress can override Trump's veto if it's really that bad of a thing. Personally, I suspect many of the Republicans that voted against the Declaration are not really against it, they just voted that way so they could play both sides of the fence and tell their constituents they tried to stop it should it become unpopular. Today's Republicans tend to be testicularly challenged.
I've been watching how things work in Washington for many years. One thing I've noticed is that most everyone in the federal government is hesitant to steo outside the normal procedural realm and try some of these ideas that fall into grey areas.
I'm not saying we should never push the envelope, but when we do step outside of normal protocol, we run many risks, including the SCOTUS ruling an action unconstitutional as they did with the line item, veto, or setting a new precedent that could used inappropriately at another time.
One concern I have would be if one of the crazy new bread of Democrats use the national emergency declaration to advance parts of their Socialist agenda.
The good part is that we still have a safeguard in place. Congress can override Trump's veto if it's really that bad of a thing. Personally, I suspect many of the Republicans that voted against the Declaration are not really against it, they just voted that way so they could play both sides of the fence and tell their constituents they tried to stop it should it become unpopular. Today's Republicans tend to be testicularly challenged.
I'm not sure this constitutes a wide-spread growing of a set, but that's what it's gonna take to fix this mess. But how can we get the people to unite and demand better of congress when said congress is keeping us divided and fighting one another?
And that, my friends, explains why the left constantly plays the race, gender, sexuality, abortion, and all other cards. There is a reason they are keeping us divided.
As I've said many times; any student of history should know what's going on here.
cptlo
Pursuit Driver
This thread is about Trump's veto and NE. If there was a thread about abolishing the EC, I'd post in that agreeing with you that it is unconstitutional absent the normal amendment process.
lotstodo
aka "The Jackal"
Everytime I see an argument " Well so-and-so did this thing that is worse", I picture two seven year old kids in the back seat saying "mom he's touching me!" That is not an argument in support of your position, it's a logical fallacy.
The Constitution is not something to get around with weasel word or new speak. The Constitution was written in a time of post revolution and was meant to limit government power, particularly executive power. Each word was written for a reason, and giving the executive the power end around Congress was clearly not one of those reasons. No vote to end a President's unconstitutional act is required in the first place.
The Constitution is not something to get around with weasel word or new speak. The Constitution was written in a time of post revolution and was meant to limit government power, particularly executive power. Each word was written for a reason, and giving the executive the power end around Congress was clearly not one of those reasons. No vote to end a President's unconstitutional act is required in the first place.
Nothing has yet been deemed unconstitutional...that remains to be seen. Should it be determined rest assured you may just hear about it on the news.
In the mean time, what’s the solution to the border crises? Everyone is quick on the draw to opine on the NE declaration but when the rubber meets the road add nothing for a workable solution. Or perhaps there is no border crisis and we should just carry on, nothing to see here.
Also, I’m fairly certain DJT isn’t the first to be in this situation and certainly won’t be the last.
In the mean time, what’s the solution to the border crises? Everyone is quick on the draw to opine on the NE declaration but when the rubber meets the road add nothing for a workable solution. Or perhaps there is no border crisis and we should just carry on, nothing to see here.
Also, I’m fairly certain DJT isn’t the first to be in this situation and certainly won’t be the last.
Paxilpapa
Serenity, through modern chemistry
Put your thinking cap on and look at the checks and balances from a slightly different angle:
Let's say that 60% - 75% of the nation wants something that is greatly needed, (a boarder wall), and the congress refuses to act on it. What recourse does the public have in this matter, and what recourse does the executive and judicial branches have when congress fails to act on the public's wishes? Has this ever happened before?
cptlo
Pursuit Driver
Vote them out of office.
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Paxilpapa
Serenity, through modern chemistry
Too little, too late!!!! What are the checks and balances on congress,,, and how can the public invoke that check??
cptlo
Pursuit Driver
Yep.
cptlo
Pursuit Driver
Who defines the "spirit of the law"? Trump? Republicans? Democrats?
That's probably a bit of an exaggeration.
A POTUS does have certain powers afforded to him by the constitution and subsequent legislation that doesn't require congressional authority. EX: he is the Commander in Chief, executive orders, Recess appointments, War Powers Acts, and certain emergency powers.
And he has other powers that simply require the advice of congress. EX: Treaties, tariffs, etc.
And he has Veto power. Consequently, Congress can override a Presidential Veto by a 2/3s vote in each chamber.
I will say again that I don't think Trump's actions in this matter are unconstitutional, and Congress still has a means of stopping him by a Veto override. If this really is a critical mistake, Congress would be doing just that. Whether or not they are wise or best for the country is certainly questionable and up for debate.
Lest we forget that there is yet another check and balance that could stop this as well; the SCOTUS. Points being...The system is still working as it applies to this issue. What Trump has done thus far, whether wise or not, is a workaround that he is authorized to use beginning with certain wording in the Constitution and later reinforced and expanded by Congress. And the SCOTUS has previously upheld it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act
I think most or all of us here will agree that the wall needs to be built. The question of why the GOP didn't fund it when they had the power is absolutely a valid one, and I, for one, would like an answer to that. Most of us will probably agree that the way this is being handled is definitely less than ideal, and potentially troublesome.
But is it a Constitutional Crises? Absolutely not! Trump is playing the system, and I believe without the boundaries of the Constitution and subsequent law and court rulings. There are at least two Constitutional means of stopping it, if it really is so terribly wrong.
One final opinion from me...though I certainly wish this would have been handled differently, it is way down the list of things our government is doing that worry me. The insanity coming from the far left and the apparent (to me, anyway) fact that entire portions of our government is corrupt and compromised is a far greater concern to me. And until We The People stop being sheeple who are hearded by partisan politics and a corrupt media, I'm afraid it's not likely that this will get any better. BTW, my previous sentence is not aimed at anyone in particular (at least here); just a general statement. Our electorate is horribly ignorant of the facts, and certain people and powers are actively working to keep them that way.
Far West
Pursuit Driver
Interesting points.....
<snip>
More recently, pursuant to the National Emergencies Act – which provides him the power to take action when he feels the nation is threatened by a crisis, exigency, or emergency circumstance –Trump has elected to act in his first term. He declared a national emergency on the U.S. border with Mexico.
The National Emergencies Act gives Congress the authority to pass a resolution striking down an emergency declaration with a majority vote. But that action is supposed to be based on whether lawmakers feel an emergency or crisis exists – not on the perceived constitutionality of the declaration.
Only the Supreme Court can determine if the declaration is constitutional.
Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, said it best. “Today the National Securities Act required the Senate to answer one question,” he said. “Whether there is an ongoing emergency at our southern border.”
And this is where all the Democrats and a dozen Republicans in the Senate are wrong.
To deny there is no current crisis on the southwest border is like denying water is wet. The number of illegal border crossers, the amount of drugs and the number of deaths in the United States from those drugs are all a testament to our current crisis.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/bor...is-wrong-national-emergency-on-border-is-real
<snip>
More recently, pursuant to the National Emergencies Act – which provides him the power to take action when he feels the nation is threatened by a crisis, exigency, or emergency circumstance –Trump has elected to act in his first term. He declared a national emergency on the U.S. border with Mexico.
The National Emergencies Act gives Congress the authority to pass a resolution striking down an emergency declaration with a majority vote. But that action is supposed to be based on whether lawmakers feel an emergency or crisis exists – not on the perceived constitutionality of the declaration.
Only the Supreme Court can determine if the declaration is constitutional.
Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, said it best. “Today the National Securities Act required the Senate to answer one question,” he said. “Whether there is an ongoing emergency at our southern border.”
And this is where all the Democrats and a dozen Republicans in the Senate are wrong.
To deny there is no current crisis on the southwest border is like denying water is wet. The number of illegal border crossers, the amount of drugs and the number of deaths in the United States from those drugs are all a testament to our current crisis.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/bor...is-wrong-national-emergency-on-border-is-real
Far West
Pursuit Driver
I will add the Saul Alinsky model of make them live up to the rules is on display... you must understand these caravans are a national emergency... they are being organized and pushed by groups from the progressive left. It is not just organic... don't be fooled.
Progressive groups are bringing mass groups to overwhelm the services in place to process people at the border. When you have thousands of ‘migrant caravan’ invaders break through Mexico border fence on their way to the USA ... then you demand they all be let into San Diego... remember someone paid to transport these caravan groups by buses through a majority of the 3000 miles!
On Feb. 14, the American Civil Liberties Union and two other groups filed a federal lawsuit against the policy of returning migrants to Mexico , arguing that it puts migrants’ safety in jeopardy and violates their humanitarian protections under U.S. and international law. The suit was filed on behalf of 11 migrants who were returned to Tijuana, as well as on behalf of legal aid groups, including the Tahirih Justice Center, which represents migrant women and children fleeing violence.
“We are very concerned that this policy, as it is now and as it expands in the coming months, will significantly put asylum-seekers in danger,” said Archi Pyati, chief of policy at the Tahirih Justice Center. “There is a lack of infrastructure in place in the border regions of Mexico to properly keep asylum-seekers safe.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...face-long-dangerous-wait-claim-asylum-n981721
And by Trump denying the caravans into the USA, using the military at our border, (seen as unconstitutional,) people in the caravan have started to do what they were supposed to do, seek asylum in the first country they cross the border... Mexico.
Many migrants facing long waits in Tijuana have created a temporary life there, finding jobs through humanitarian or work visas offered by the Mexican government.
For Albert that new normal meant working at a hockey-stick factory during the day and coming home to a shelter at the Agape Misión Mundial church, where he lived alongside dozens of other migrants.
You see by Trump enforcing our border, those who wished to break the law, were made to abide by how the system is supposed to work to have order. These caravans are a national emergency... they are being pushed by groups organizing them from the progressive left... please understand this.
Progressive groups are bringing mass groups to overwhelm the services in place to process people at the border. When you have thousands of ‘migrant caravan’ invaders break through Mexico border fence on their way to the USA ... then you demand they all be let into San Diego... remember someone paid to transport these caravan groups by buses through a majority of the 3000 miles!
On Feb. 14, the American Civil Liberties Union and two other groups filed a federal lawsuit against the policy of returning migrants to Mexico , arguing that it puts migrants’ safety in jeopardy and violates their humanitarian protections under U.S. and international law. The suit was filed on behalf of 11 migrants who were returned to Tijuana, as well as on behalf of legal aid groups, including the Tahirih Justice Center, which represents migrant women and children fleeing violence.
“We are very concerned that this policy, as it is now and as it expands in the coming months, will significantly put asylum-seekers in danger,” said Archi Pyati, chief of policy at the Tahirih Justice Center. “There is a lack of infrastructure in place in the border regions of Mexico to properly keep asylum-seekers safe.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...face-long-dangerous-wait-claim-asylum-n981721
And by Trump denying the caravans into the USA, using the military at our border, (seen as unconstitutional,) people in the caravan have started to do what they were supposed to do, seek asylum in the first country they cross the border... Mexico.
Many migrants facing long waits in Tijuana have created a temporary life there, finding jobs through humanitarian or work visas offered by the Mexican government.
For Albert that new normal meant working at a hockey-stick factory during the day and coming home to a shelter at the Agape Misión Mundial church, where he lived alongside dozens of other migrants.
You see by Trump enforcing our border, those who wished to break the law, were made to abide by how the system is supposed to work to have order. These caravans are a national emergency... they are being pushed by groups organizing them from the progressive left... please understand this.
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