Supreme Court to Hear Oral Arguments Challenging Roe v. Wade in December

Political suicide for the GOP conservatives. This will alienate a huge percentage of the independents. With the partisan electorate pretty much 48%-48% the independents elect national offices. The left sways the independents (women especially) with the fear tactic of Roe v Wade being overturned. This plays right into their hands. By the way Roberts will not vote to overturn so the whole thing will be a bust. I do not believe in abortion being used for birth control (you might be surprised at my view overall) but you cannot legislate morality.
 
I'm very pro-life, but if the courts outlawed abortion with exceptions for rape, then thousands and thousands of teenaged boys would be falsely accused of rape. Women will play victim and the men will be brought up on bogus charges.
 
Stonewall said:
you cannot legislate morality.
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I have to say, the churches, and people of the church have done a horrible job of bringing more people to God ...who would then know killing an unborn baby is not moral.

I agree and have said this for decades: you cannot legislate morality.

Politicians diving into this never helps.

It should be from our pastors and doctors and community standards that citizens embrace life, not abortions.
 
Captain Rhett Butler said:
I'm very pro-life, but if the courts outlawed abortion with exceptions for rape, then thousands and thousands of teenaged boys would be falsely accused of rape. Women will play victim and the men will be brought up on bogus charges.
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Haven't thought of that, but <sigh> yeah that would be a likely outcome.
 
Stonewall said:
you cannot legislate morality.
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True, but you deter immorality by punishing it. We have laws and sentences against murder, homicide, etc. Granted, it doesn't stop it, but it does make some people at least think twice about it. And those people are generally ones who have no moral objection to it.
 
This is the hot button topic of all hot button topics and I usually refrain from discussing it. I will ask though many of the anti-vaxers argue it is your right to do with your body as you please and the government should not be able to tell you what to do with your body. Why does this not apply to abortion in these same peoples eyes? I get the moral aspect and I am pro-life for the most part (I am actually much closer to a moderate on this topic) and anti-late term but the hypocrisy is evident. There are cases (rape, incest, danger to the mother, birth defects) when this procedure is the most practical and humane answer. Is that not the moral high ground also? I get the fetus is a living being at some point but so is the mother. A lot of the laws that push religious (moral) agenda are the same ones that fill jail cells and burden taxpayers the most. The 18th amendment was a moral based example that caused a huge increase in crime, violence and strained the tax base. How did that work out in the long run? Can't legislate it boys, just saying.
 
Stonewall said:
This is the hot button topic of all hot button topics and I usually refrain from discussing it. I will ask though many of the anti-vaxers argue it is your right to do with your body as you please and the government should not be able to tell you what to do with your body. Why does this not apply to abortion in these same peoples eyes? I get the moral aspect and I am pro-life for the most part (I am actually much closer to a moderate on this topic) and anti-late term but the hypocrisy is evident. There are cases (rape, incest, danger to the mother, birth defects) when this procedure is the most practical and humane answer. Is that not the moral high ground also? I get the fetus is a living being at some point but so is the mother. A lot of the laws that push religious (moral) agenda are the same ones that fill jail cells and burden taxpayers the most. The 18th amendment was a moral based example that caused a huge increase in crime, violence and strained the tax base. How did that work out in the long run? Can't legislate it boys, just saying.
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The thing that distinguishes this issue from COVID is that it's about more than "my body-my choice", there's a living being inside the mother's body who has no choice. My personal beliefs are that we don't have the moral authority to kill that living being.
 
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I see and understand your point and it is valid. I am just not that judgmental over others situation in life and their circumstances. Not to say that I have not been judgmental most of my life because I have and continue to be in may cases. Just not in this case.
 
Guard Dad said:
True, but you deter immorality by punishing it. We have laws and sentences against murder, homicide, etc. Granted, it doesn't stop it, but it does make some people at least think twice about it. And those people are generally ones who have no moral objection to it.
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Before Roe v. Wade existed, there were unmarried women who were pregnant because they were sexually active. Many had illegal abortions and there were others who tried to abort the pregnancy themselves. There was a large percentage of women in both categories who died as a result of the abortions. As long as people have sex without the use of birth control, there are going to be unwanted pregnancies.

Jesus said in Romans 13:1-2, " Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

What do you think He meant by this? First of all you have to look at who was governing Israel at the time Christ said this - the Romans. Were the Romans obeying Gods laws? No. Was God punishing the Jews because they obeyed Roman laws. No. The ones who made the laws is who God dealt with. As Christians we have to live with the fact the law gives women the right to choose. As Christians we should be praying for women who have an an unwanted pregnancy carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption. Every election we as Christians have the opportunity to vote for a moral candidate. The problem is so many Christians who themselves live immoral lives and have abortions. Those Christians will answer to God one day.

The immorality starts with unmarried people having sex. Do you propose to make laws that make it illegal to have sex before marriage. When it comes to the vaccine you say it's a person's right to decide for themselves if they want the vaccine or not. You're also against mask mandates saying people have the right to choose. The problem with that is people who have the virus and while asymptomatic are not wearing masks and giving it to others. It's how you got it. It's how my father got it.
 
Boss 302 said:
Before Roe v. Wade existed, there were unmarried women who were pregnant because they were sexually active. Many had illegal abortions and there were others who tried to abort the pregnancy themselves. There was a large percentage of women in both categories who died as a result of the abortions. As long as people have sex without the use of birth control, there are going to be unwanted pregnancies.

Jesus said in Romans 13:1-2, " Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

What do you think He meant by this? First of all you have to look at who was governing Israel at the time Christ said this - the Romans. Were the Romans obeying Gods laws? No. Was God punishing the Jews because they obeyed Roman laws. No. The ones who made the laws is who God dealt with. As Christians we have to live with the fact the law gives women the right to choose. As Christians we should be praying for women who have an an unwanted pregnancy carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption. Every election we as Christians have the opportunity to vote for a moral candidate. The problem is so many Christians who themselves live immoral lives and have abortions. Those Christians will answer to God one day.

The immorality starts with unmarried people having sex. Do you propose to make laws that make it illegal to have sex before marriage. When it comes to the vaccine you say it's a person's right to decide for themselves if they want the vaccine or not. You're also against mask mandates saying people have the right to choose. The problem with that is people who have the virus and while asymptomatic are not wearing masks and giving it to others. It's how you got it. It's how my father got it.
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People spread germs all the time, they always have. If it's intentional, there can be legal consequences, but usually it is not.

As a general rule; my civil rights end where yours' begin. Each individual is responsible for their own health. I don't have the right to tell people not to breath around me or to wear a mask, but I can keep my distance, which I generally do. I can also wear a mask myself if I choose.

The unvaccinated is not your enemy. Neither is the unmasked. You're responsible for your own safety.

Regarding your Biblical reference, I will direct you to this verse:

Jeremiah
5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
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Regarding unmarried women getting pregnant...we're all responsible for our choices and activities, and this is no exception. I have made many mistakes, but I "manned" up and dealt with them in a manner that hurt no one. No one forces people to have sex out of marriage or to have unprotected sex. If you do and make a child, then do the right thing and support it. I thought I was in that position when I was a teenager (thankfully a false alarm), and aborting the baby was NEVER a consideration. I would have taken responsibility and made the best of it. But that's because of who I am and what I believe in.
God recognizes the unborn as LIFE!

I believe an unborn child is precious life and you will not change my mind. This trumps (no pun intended) the "my body my choice" argument and there is absolutely no comparison to the vaccine mandate issue.
 
Boss 302 said:
Do you propose to make laws that make it illegal to have sex before marriage.
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Season 5 No GIF by The Office


No Way GIF


No Way Reaction GIF
 
Boss 302 said:
There was a large percentage of women in both categories who died as a result of the abortions.
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Sounds awfully similar to another crises. If we followed current “logic” then there should be a mandate against abortion.
 
J-man said:
Sounds awfully similar to another crises. If we followed current “logic” then there should be a mandate against abortion.
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Only if it was politically expedient for the party suggesting it.

You know...kind of like it is for the Democrat using COVID to divide the American people.
 
J-man said:
Sounds awfully similar to another crises. If we followed current “logic” then there should be a mandate against abortion.
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There's a significant difference between public health issues and abortion. People spreading a virus that has killed hundreds of thousands of people in this country already is public health issue. Abortion is not. What harm becomes of you and your family when the woman next door has an abortion? None. If you are around someone who is asymptomatic with covid, what happens when you get it from that person? You end up with covid and give it to your family as well as others you came in contact with if you weren't wearing a mask.
 
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