Blazing Saddles
Pursuit Driver
Peace out white boy
No winter break for Paulding
- Thread starter unionmom
- Start date
Madea
zip a dee doo dah
newsjunky said:
I have no idea how that is going to work. Do you have them prove they have non-refundable vacations? Do they have 5 days they can take? If school is open, my children will be there. Just like on Monday (MLK) my office will be open and I will be there (provided there isn't another freak storm).
This is part of Kim's post:Foxmeister said:
Before, when there had to be alterations in the calendar, most citizens said the "board" waited too long to address it. At least now, if someone has plans, they can choose to go or cancel over 30 days in advance to attempt to meet cancellation deadlines. No decision will please everyone.....DARNED IF YOU DO AND DARNED IF YOU DON'T. Choices regarding this week are individual decisions for parents and employees and should not be determined by GOVERNMENT!!!!
I tried to "quote" Madea and it took me to my own last post but Madea this is my reply to you:
I was in favor of it until I realized how much it might cost if all of the teachers who have issues with it just take off anyway. I don't think the county should pay for subs without KNOWING the teachers are either sick or have personal days coming. The BOE seemed OK with paying subs if I read Kim's post correctly.
I was in favor of it until I realized how much it might cost if all of the teachers who have issues with it just take off anyway. I don't think the county should pay for subs without KNOWING the teachers are either sick or have personal days coming. The BOE seemed OK with paying subs if I read Kim's post correctly.
Madea
zip a dee doo dah
Some of the teachers "over there" seemed very upset. I understand if you've paid a lot of money for a trip, but what other solutions are they offering? I'd be extremely upset if someone was taking off in protest or it was something that could easily be rescheduled. I think the BOE did well in giving the 30 days + notice.
I work for the school system...and I am not a teacher. I am paid for 180/176 days. If we didn't make it up then I would be deducted for the days from my check. I am ok with them taking the week from us. ;D
I understand what they are saying though. If they take it off then either they will use days that have been saved or they will loose money from the days. So either way them calling in subs wouldn't make a difference, they can take the days in 2 weeks or in 2 months...so why not take it in Feb. It will end up the same either way. If they take off the 5 days anytime this year, it will cause us to have to pay a sub to be in that class. So why should it matter when they take the days?
I understand what they are saying though. If they take it off then either they will use days that have been saved or they will loose money from the days. So either way them calling in subs wouldn't make a difference, they can take the days in 2 weeks or in 2 months...so why not take it in Feb. It will end up the same either way. If they take off the 5 days anytime this year, it will cause us to have to pay a sub to be in that class. So why should it matter when they take the days?
JMT
JMT | That is all.
I had not heard that.
My gut reaction: Show me a receipt for a non-refundable, NON-CHANGEABLE travel package purchased before the announcement yesterday. Then we'll talk options. Otherwise, get to work as expected. Your employer is not responsible for fixing the headaches in your life even when their decisions may be part of what caused them. (Some tickets that cannot be refunded can still be used toward another ticket, perhaps with a change fee.)
People in every other walk of life have to reschedule vacations sometimes. People in every other profession sometimes have a vacation canceled due to budget needs or crunch time on a big project. Soldiers sometimes have their tours of duty extended. I've had special things I was looking forward to but which had to be postponed for a project at work due to timing. Unpaid overtime, canceled days off that I asked for. Heck, my Dad works as a greeter at Sams's and sometimes has expected time-off canceled for scheduling complications. I do not understand why it should be different for employees of a school system than it is for employees of any other company or organization. Professionals in any field who would want to be considered society's best and brightest and most capable cannot forever be clamoring for greater levels of handholding and "fix this headache for me."
I absolutely do not think the county should create a blanket policy to pay any employee to ignore a week when they are expected to be at work. Some case by case instances might be worthwhile investments in the happiness of a particularly successful and talented employee in a real predicament, but as a blanket policy - no way.
My gut reaction: Show me a receipt for a non-refundable, NON-CHANGEABLE travel package purchased before the announcement yesterday. Then we'll talk options. Otherwise, get to work as expected. Your employer is not responsible for fixing the headaches in your life even when their decisions may be part of what caused them. (Some tickets that cannot be refunded can still be used toward another ticket, perhaps with a change fee.)
People in every other walk of life have to reschedule vacations sometimes. People in every other profession sometimes have a vacation canceled due to budget needs or crunch time on a big project. Soldiers sometimes have their tours of duty extended. I've had special things I was looking forward to but which had to be postponed for a project at work due to timing. Unpaid overtime, canceled days off that I asked for. Heck, my Dad works as a greeter at Sams's and sometimes has expected time-off canceled for scheduling complications. I do not understand why it should be different for employees of a school system than it is for employees of any other company or organization. Professionals in any field who would want to be considered society's best and brightest and most capable cannot forever be clamoring for greater levels of handholding and "fix this headache for me."
I absolutely do not think the county should create a blanket policy to pay any employee to ignore a week when they are expected to be at work. Some case by case instances might be worthwhile investments in the happiness of a particularly successful and talented employee in a real predicament, but as a blanket policy - no way.
F
Foxmeister
Guest
I agree with Joe. Nicely put.
JMT
JMT | That is all.
I can see where some exceptional cases might be allowable this year, especially as a compromise for getting the overall task accomplished of getting the days made up for the largest number of students.
That said - next year the calendar should have a *giant asterisk* next to this week, saying "Scheduled break; subject to weather make-up." And no arguments if a change is made to keep the rest of the school year on track.
I am disappointed that the initial response I saw from some quarters was to try to find a way to game the system or get out of the time altogether based on the state's "declared emergency." We have the days to work with, inconvenient as they may be to change. Why shortchange the education process by trying to skip the days altogether if you have a way to get it done? So you don't have to pay a change fee? Really? Depend on the state to just declare those days unnecessary? Why is that really a better option?
It reminds me of the old joke... Fred is walking down the street. He sees his old buddy Charlie walking up to him looking kind of desperate.
Charlie calls over to him. "Hey Fred, how ya doin?"
"Fine," says Fred. "What's wrong?"
"Man, my wife is really sick. She needs an operation but I need $10,000 to even get the process started."
"That's awful," says Fred.
"Hey," says Charlie. "Didn't you just win the lottery?"
"Umm, yes."
"Could you spot me $10,000 for my wife's operation?"
"Charlie," says Fred. "You're a known gambler. How do I know that if I give you the $10,000, you won't just walk into that casino over there and gamble it away?"
"Ohhh, noooo, I wouldn't do that." says Charlie. "Gambling money I've got!"
We've got gambling money. We just don't want to spend it on our wife's operation because we've got reservations down at Harrah's.
That said - next year the calendar should have a *giant asterisk* next to this week, saying "Scheduled break; subject to weather make-up." And no arguments if a change is made to keep the rest of the school year on track.
I am disappointed that the initial response I saw from some quarters was to try to find a way to game the system or get out of the time altogether based on the state's "declared emergency." We have the days to work with, inconvenient as they may be to change. Why shortchange the education process by trying to skip the days altogether if you have a way to get it done? So you don't have to pay a change fee? Really? Depend on the state to just declare those days unnecessary? Why is that really a better option?
It reminds me of the old joke... Fred is walking down the street. He sees his old buddy Charlie walking up to him looking kind of desperate.
Charlie calls over to him. "Hey Fred, how ya doin?"
"Fine," says Fred. "What's wrong?"
"Man, my wife is really sick. She needs an operation but I need $10,000 to even get the process started."
"That's awful," says Fred.
"Hey," says Charlie. "Didn't you just win the lottery?"
"Umm, yes."
"Could you spot me $10,000 for my wife's operation?"
"Charlie," says Fred. "You're a known gambler. How do I know that if I give you the $10,000, you won't just walk into that casino over there and gamble it away?"
"Ohhh, noooo, I wouldn't do that." says Charlie. "Gambling money I've got!"
We've got gambling money. We just don't want to spend it on our wife's operation because we've got reservations down at Harrah's.
Blazing Saddles
Pursuit Driver
I'm with you Joe. Show me a non refundable ticket and then we'll talk. Even then, trips can be rescheduled. Quite frankly, it amazes me that a teacher would be surprised by this decision. WE ALL KNOW that off days are used for make up days due to weather. <shaking my head> Now we will have to resort to putting a disclaimer in the hand book or school schedule stating that these days might be subject to make up days. Certainly doesn't make our teachers look good.
unionmom
Pursuit Driver
After seeing that the county has apparently opted to not go after the waiver, I can be a big girl and say they did the right thing. No matter how unsettling it is for many people. If there is no big "if" hanging out there waiting to determine how much time needs to be made up, they need to just get on with it.
The kids need the instructional time. They really do. And it is most beneficial to them before the beastly CRCT.
The kids need the instructional time. They really do. And it is most beneficial to them before the beastly CRCT.
I'm Floored
Lover of BS!
I agree 100%, Joe.
As far as "allowing" the teachers to take the break anyway, truly, I don't have a big problem with it. Sub pay is budgeted anyway. If teachers and staff are allowed a certain number of personal and sick days each year, those figures (including sub pay) have to be built into our budget. I know some will say that other teachers who don't have plans will just play hooky, but I guess I still like to believe that most people are honest and won't do that. And when it all comes down, I wholeheartedly believe that it will NOT be a huge number of teachers OR students who are absent that week. This decision gave ample time for rescheduling, and the vast majority of people are not stuck with non-refundable airline tickets. (Personally, I only know of one or two in my circle of friends who travel during that week anyway.)
I, too, cannot believe the number of people crying out for a waiver to be applied for. What is more surprising is that many of them are teachers or parents who, in the past, have been outspoken about children NEEDING every bit of classroom time they can get. But when it affects THEM negatively, the story changes. Like I posted, we had plans for that week (not the whole week, but plans nonetheless.) They can and will be changed. I took myself out of the equation, and looked at the BIG picture. I think this is best for our county school system as a whole.
Growing up, our school calendar always listed Spring Break as possible make-up days. Whether or not the days on our calendar were viewed that way or not, we've always known that those days could be selected for that purpose. To me, it just makes sense.
I have a lot of respect for teachers. Heck, if I'd not danced, I would have pursued my teaching certificate. But I have lost some respect for certain educators as they cry out for rebellion, threaten to use organizations (PAGE, GAE, etc.) to bully our board, and incite others to vote out our elected officials and fire our superintendent over this. I don't see the vote as "sneaky" at all. I see it as expedient. They don't need to "consult" the teachers, parents, etc. for opinions or ideas about what to do. We elected them to make the decisions. Again, I hate to "lose" the Winter Break, but I believe it was the best decision, and I'm glad they made it promptly. I'm also glad they didn't file for a waiver and force our students to LOSE 6 more days of instructional time.
JMO
As far as "allowing" the teachers to take the break anyway, truly, I don't have a big problem with it. Sub pay is budgeted anyway. If teachers and staff are allowed a certain number of personal and sick days each year, those figures (including sub pay) have to be built into our budget. I know some will say that other teachers who don't have plans will just play hooky, but I guess I still like to believe that most people are honest and won't do that. And when it all comes down, I wholeheartedly believe that it will NOT be a huge number of teachers OR students who are absent that week. This decision gave ample time for rescheduling, and the vast majority of people are not stuck with non-refundable airline tickets. (Personally, I only know of one or two in my circle of friends who travel during that week anyway.)
I, too, cannot believe the number of people crying out for a waiver to be applied for. What is more surprising is that many of them are teachers or parents who, in the past, have been outspoken about children NEEDING every bit of classroom time they can get. But when it affects THEM negatively, the story changes. Like I posted, we had plans for that week (not the whole week, but plans nonetheless.) They can and will be changed. I took myself out of the equation, and looked at the BIG picture. I think this is best for our county school system as a whole.
Growing up, our school calendar always listed Spring Break as possible make-up days. Whether or not the days on our calendar were viewed that way or not, we've always known that those days could be selected for that purpose. To me, it just makes sense.
I have a lot of respect for teachers. Heck, if I'd not danced, I would have pursued my teaching certificate. But I have lost some respect for certain educators as they cry out for rebellion, threaten to use organizations (PAGE, GAE, etc.) to bully our board, and incite others to vote out our elected officials and fire our superintendent over this. I don't see the vote as "sneaky" at all. I see it as expedient. They don't need to "consult" the teachers, parents, etc. for opinions or ideas about what to do. We elected them to make the decisions. Again, I hate to "lose" the Winter Break, but I believe it was the best decision, and I'm glad they made it promptly. I'm also glad they didn't file for a waiver and force our students to LOSE 6 more days of instructional time.
JMO
unionmom
Pursuit Driver
It's painfully clear that education is not what many parents expect from our schools anymore. You saw what happened when budget cut items were being discussed. When after school sports and clubs were in danger, parents went ape-poo.
I can understand the knee-jerk reaction from folks last night about the possible money lost but it never ceases to amaze me the number of non-educational crap that parents will seemingly put before their child's education.
I can understand the knee-jerk reaction from folks last night about the possible money lost but it never ceases to amaze me the number of non-educational crap that parents will seemingly put before their child's education.
I don't often disagree with you but I will on this one. I don't care if the money is budgeted to pay for subs. The fact still remains that money should be conserved because it is in short supply. If teachers work when school is in session then the money does not get spent. I don't know what part of that folks don't get. here I am buying paper and sending it to school and some folks think it is OK for teachers to take vacation when school is in session. The budget will be worse next year and trust me I will be looking at decisions that our BOE makes as to how money is spent. You know me well enough to know that I do that.I'm Floored said:
F
Foxmeister
Guest
I was part of a recent conversation with somebody about the BoE’s decision to cancel Winter Break to make up the lost days in the classrooms because of the recent snowstorm. This person just flabbergasted me. She thought the best options were to implement one of the following: Let the time be made up by adding 15 minutes to each day; increase the half days to full days (aren’t the half days used for exams?); or apply for the waiver asking the number of school days for the year be reduced to prevent the need for making the days up.
This person thought it was important to let the Winter Break remain in place because vacations are educational.
I then received a short lesson from this person how good leaders have to make tough decisions that are not going to please everyone, but will serve the greater good. This person also included poor leaders make decisions that will only appease people.
I left the conversation with the impression the suggested alternatives the person was offering would only appease people. If any of these suggested alternatives were implemented by the BoE, they would not have made up the valuable classroom instructional time our students lost; especially in preparation for the CRCT. If the BoE had implemented on of these suggested alternatives, it would have been to appease those who had vacation plans and not benefited the education of our students.
I make this suggestion to reduce the likelihood of this situation happening again. They do this up north where they receive snow on a regular basis during winter. They schedule graduation to occur a week after the last day of school. Those days between the last scheduled day of school and graduation are used to make up lost days due to inclement weather. The 2011-2012 school calendar has graduation scheduled for May 26th. I suggest they move it to June 2d. If inclement weather causes lost days next year, then those days can be made up during the week of May 28-June 1st. That would move some or all final exams to that week, depending on how many days were to be made up. If none are to be made up, then the students have a week off before graduation ceremonies.
This person thought it was important to let the Winter Break remain in place because vacations are educational.
I then received a short lesson from this person how good leaders have to make tough decisions that are not going to please everyone, but will serve the greater good. This person also included poor leaders make decisions that will only appease people.
I left the conversation with the impression the suggested alternatives the person was offering would only appease people. If any of these suggested alternatives were implemented by the BoE, they would not have made up the valuable classroom instructional time our students lost; especially in preparation for the CRCT. If the BoE had implemented on of these suggested alternatives, it would have been to appease those who had vacation plans and not benefited the education of our students.
I make this suggestion to reduce the likelihood of this situation happening again. They do this up north where they receive snow on a regular basis during winter. They schedule graduation to occur a week after the last day of school. Those days between the last scheduled day of school and graduation are used to make up lost days due to inclement weather. The 2011-2012 school calendar has graduation scheduled for May 26th. I suggest they move it to June 2d. If inclement weather causes lost days next year, then those days can be made up during the week of May 28-June 1st. That would move some or all final exams to that week, depending on how many days were to be made up. If none are to be made up, then the students have a week off before graduation ceremonies.
F
Foxmeister
Guest
newsjunky said:
I simply think it's wrong to allow teachers to take vacations during the school year. They can take their vacations during the scheduled breaks and summer like the students. The only days they should have off during the school year are the weekends, the scheduled breaks unless they change and a limited number of sick days. They should always be scheduled to be in the classroom when their students are scheduled to be in the classroom. This reduces the number of days you have to pay a teacher and the sub to take their place when they're not.
No amount of trying to make this logical will do the trick for me. Money spent can't be recovered and treating those in the educational field differently is not a good idea. If your employees do not stay on the job, and choose to take a vacation instead, then maybe it is time to allow some of the folks who are desperate for work to have a shot at it. I did not take personal days when I worked unless they were needed. Can't get over the responses from some employees!Foxmeister said:
F
Foxmeister
Guest
You have to remember, most teachers align themselves with the Left. They feel they are entitled.
I'm Floored
Lover of BS!
newsjunky said:
I don't disagree with you at all. I just think in this case, for those who TRULY have non-refundable tickets, that a compromise has to be reached. Teachers have personal days (3, I think) as a benefit. These are separate from their sick leave, and they should be able to use them as such. Again, I do not believe that this will affect too many people. We all know that very few vacations cannot be rescheduled - even up to 48 hours beforehand.
I think for those of us who don't work in education, we've all experienced canceled vacations or other plans. For us, this past week cost us money. We will be playing catch up for weeks, but it is what it is. No different than when we couldn't leave our house due to the flooding. It can't be helped, and I'm thankful for a school board who saw a problem and acted quickly to find resolution.
I want to believe that most people WILL do the right thing - for our children and our county. In our case, my youngest will still be out of school (because he's done his assignments this week.) I could be rebellious, and say we're NOT changing our plans, and our oldest will miss 2 or 3 days of school during those February days.
Of course, our children's education is the most important thing to us, so we will change our plans, and he will be at school. I think when it all comes down, most people will do the same.