What Do You Think People Mean By...

[MrsAlmostSmith]

It is very simple. "Spiritual but not religious" typically means that they perceive themselves as being moral enough to make judgments about others, but they probably reject the existence of any absolute moral standard and ultimately consider themselves exempt from having their own conduct subjected to judgment by others, including the God they have visualized as existing minus the hard parts. Generally speaking, any spiritual concept or characteristic they see in others that they wish to disagree with is dismissed as "religious" and/or "judgmental."

That's my experience in a nutshell.

That is all.

I kinda take offense to this, actually, and appreciate BBG's defense (even if a bit harsh :taunt ). I don't judge others..often. We're all guilty at some point, but I'm the first person to say 'to each his own'. This includes people who have affairs, have nine wives, or some of the things us Americans would define as 'crazy' in other cultures and religions. I'm going to school for religions and culture studies, and I have a wide open mind when it comes to other people, their beliefs, and their choices. It doesn't effect me...why should I care?

As a Buddhist, we have rules. Lots and lots of them, actually. I was Christian for 20 years and, even while following God's rules, I found Christianity to be much easier than Buddhism. As a Christian, I had rules, and I had grace and forgiveness. As a Buddhist, I have zero grace or forgiveness (that bad karma just keeps on piling up...no such thing as asking for forgiveness), and I have more rules. The Bible says to honor thy mother and thy father, but Buddhism wants you to learn from them, honor them, and not get attached. Talk about near impossible. Rules, rules, rules...and then no wanting, no attachment, no desire. The list of morals and values are near the equivalent of several religions put together, plus some.

The only difference I see, really, between me being a Buddhist and me being a Christian (which, for me, is the basis of me being spiritual and me being religious), is that I've finally admitted that I do not have faith in God. I just don't believe he exists. I can't force myself to believe, I spent years praying that I would believe, and I just couldn't pretend anymore. I still have high morals and values, I still don't judge others, I just don't claim to (or actually) believe in a god-figure, therefore I do not claim to be 'religious', as society generally views religions as having a (or many) god(s).

 

[BeatBoxinGranny47]

It is very simple. "Spiritual but not religious" typically means that they perceive themselves as being moral enough to make judgments about others, but they probably reject the existence of any absolute moral standard and ultimately consider themselves exempt from having their own conduct subjected to judgment by others, including the God they have visualized as existing minus the hard parts. Generally speaking, any spiritual concept or characteristic they see in others that they wish to disagree with is dismissed as "religious" and/or "judgmental."

That's my experience in a nutshell.

That is all.

I kinda take offense to this, actually, and appreciate BBG's defense (even if a bit harsh :taunt ). I don't judge others..often. We're all guilty at some point, but I'm the first person to say 'to each his own'. This includes people who have affairs, have nine wives, or some of the things us Americans would define as 'crazy' in other cultures and religions. I'm going to school for religions and culture studies, and I have a wide open mind when it comes to other people, their beliefs, and their choices. It doesn't effect me...why should I care?

As a Buddhist, we have rules. Lots and lots of them, actually. I was Christian for 20 years and, even while following God's rules, I found Christianity to be much easier than Buddhism. As a Christian, I had rules, and I had grace and forgiveness. As a Buddhist, I have zero grace or forgiveness (that bad karma just keeps on piling up...no such thing as asking for forgiveness), and I have more rules. The Bible says to honor thy mother and thy father, but Buddhism wants you to learn from them, honor them, and not get attached. Talk about near impossible. Rules, rules, rules...and then no wanting, no attachment, no desire. The list of morals and values are near the equivalent of several religions put together, plus some.

The only difference I see, really, between me being a Buddhist and me being a Christian (which, for me, is the basis of me being spiritual and me being religious), is that I've finally admitted that I do not have faith in God. I just don't believe he exists. I can't force myself to believe, I spent years praying that I would believe, and I just couldn't pretend anymore. I still have high morals and values, I still don't judge others, I just don't claim to (or actually) believe in a god-figure, therefore I do not claim to be 'religious', as society generally views religions as having a (or many) god(s).

Thank you. That is all I can say. I agree with damn near everything you said. One question. How do you not get attached to your parents? And why wouldnt you?

 

[MrsAlmostSmith]

It is very simple. "Spiritual but not religious" typically means that they perceive themselves as being moral enough to make judgments about others, but they probably reject the existence of any absolute moral standard and ultimately consider themselves exempt from having their own conduct subjected to judgment by others, including the God they have visualized as existing minus the hard parts. Generally speaking, any spiritual concept or characteristic they see in others that they wish to disagree with is dismissed as "religious" and/or "judgmental."

That's my experience in a nutshell.

That is all.

I kinda take offense to this, actually, and appreciate BBG's defense (even if a bit harsh :taunt ). I don't judge others..often. We're all guilty at some point, but I'm the first person to say 'to each his own'. This includes people who have affairs, have nine wives, or some of the things us Americans would define as 'crazy' in other cultures and religions. I'm going to school for religions and culture studies, and I have a wide open mind when it comes to other people, their beliefs, and their choices. It doesn't effect me...why should I care?

As a Buddhist, we have rules. Lots and lots of them, actually. I was Christian for 20 years and, even while following God's rules, I found Christianity to be much easier than Buddhism. As a Christian, I had rules, and I had grace and forgiveness. As a Buddhist, I have zero grace or forgiveness (that bad karma just keeps on piling up...no such thing as asking for forgiveness), and I have more rules. The Bible says to honor thy mother and thy father, but Buddhism wants you to learn from them, honor them, and not get attached. Talk about near impossible. Rules, rules, rules...and then no wanting, no attachment, no desire. The list of morals and values are near the equivalent of several religions put together, plus some.

The only difference I see, really, between me being a Buddhist and me being a Christian (which, for me, is the basis of me being spiritual and me being religious), is that I've finally admitted that I do not have faith in God. I just don't believe he exists. I can't force myself to believe, I spent years praying that I would believe, and I just couldn't pretend anymore. I still have high morals and values, I still don't judge others, I just don't claim to (or actually) believe in a god-figure, therefore I do not claim to be 'religious', as society generally views religions as having a (or many) god(s).

Thank you. That is all I can say. I agree with damn near everything you said. One question. How do you not get attached to your parents? And why wouldnt you?

According to Buddhist philosophy and The Four Noble Truths, all suffering comes from desire and attachments. There's a few good articles on Buddhism and attachment if you google a bit - definitely worth the read. Attachment doesn't mean we're not supposed to love them, but we're not supposed to...give them as much power? Have as much dependency? There's a whole slew of things that Buddhists often see different in regards to relationships with family/friends/etc.

Google the Bhagavad Gita and read the story of Krishna and Arjuna. It originated as a Hindu text, but that story itself explains alot about attachment. Arjuna is about to go to battle and realizes he's battling his own family. Krishna (one of the Hindu higher beings) explains to him that he wouldn't have a problem with this if he didn't have an attachment to the memories, titles, and feelings associated with those people.

Of course, Buddhist and Hindus also believe in reincarnation. While the goal of Buddhism is to cease reincarnation (and, thus, and suffering), the idea that people aren't actually 'dead' makes it a lot easier to at least deal with the subject of attachment vs death.

 

[Madea]

As unpopular as this may currently be, I agree in large part with what JMT said. In addition, I have found most (obviously, not all) of those who proclaim "don't judge me" are among the first to judge the actions of others. Personally, I don't think I've EVER uttered (or posted) "don't judge me". In fact, feel free to form your own conclusions of me as you wish.

Do I draw conclusions based on others actions? Yes, I do. But my life experiences have taught me that there's a story behind (almost) every action. I rarely name call. It's rarely necessary. (Well, except this one time.)

Then again, I truly don't understand the many claims of "damage" from "organized religion". Do I agree with them all? No. But I've never been damaged by the disagreement of opinion.

IMHO, "religious" is one of the newer politically incorrect words.

 

[Foxmeister]

I've known Christians who don't go to church call themselves "spiritual, but not religious." They don't like to be judged because they don't go to church. If they don't want to go to church, it's their right not to; however, I've seen some of these same people call those who do go to church, "holy rollers." Now if they don't want to be judged for not going to church, why are they then judging those who do?

Personally, I think it's up to each Christian to decide what type of relationship they choose to have with God, as He did give all free will. I have no problem inviting people to church, but if they don't want to go, that's up to them. I'm not going to condemn or judge anyone because they don't go to church. That's between them and God.

I have been to some churches where you were judged by how you dressed or how much money you earned. I've seen some congregations where they had their cliques. I've seen some pastors who only associated with those in the congregation that tithed the most.

I've known some really good Christians who didn't go to church. They worshipped God in their own homes and they actually served Christ by serving others.

I posed the question because I've seen more people saying, "I'm spiritual, but not religious." Since my OP, I've asked a few people who have said that to me what they meant by that. Their responses were all different from one another's. I guess if you asked a number of Christians what does it mean to be a Christian, you would probably get a number of different answers.

I think most people feel insulted if they were told their opinion was "retarded," "idiotic" or something else derogatory. Such words usually serve to ignite discourse, which isn't anything I feel we want here. I agree JMT was being judgemental. Perhaps the better response to his opinion would have been to ask why he's making that judgement.

 

[naturegirl]

As unpopular as this may currently be, I agree in large part with what JMT said. In addition, I have found most (obviously, not all) of those who proclaim "don't judge me" are among the first to judge the actions of others. Personally, I don't think I've EVER uttered (or posted) "don't judge me". In fact, feel free to form your own conclusions of me as you wish.

Do I draw conclusions based on others actions? Yes, I do. But my life experiences have taught me that there's a story behind (almost) every action. I rarely name call. It's rarely necessary. (Well, except this one time.)

Then again, I truly don't understand the many claims of "damage" from "organized religion". Do I agree with them all? No. But I've never been damaged by the disagreement of opinion.

IMHO, "religious" is one of the newer politically incorrect words.

My great-grandfather was a Methodist minister for 51 years, he was a wonderful man that lived to be in his 90s so I had the opportunity to meet him. Never once did he question our church attendance, never once did I see him judge my father that never stepped foot in a church. We did attend church faithfully every Sunday Morning, evening and Wednesday Prayer Meetings but I can't remember him asking about it. His was a kind a gentle relationship with Christ. He truly was religious and spiritual and it had little to do with the building he went to to spread the Word.

I think it's great that people want to share their blessings with others at Church, I have no problem with it. I visit churches often, but I'm not a member of any.

Just recently I had a conversation with a preacher about scout leaders and he spent a good 15 minutes telling me that he didn't think a Mormon or a member of the Masons would make a good scout leader. I truly love this minister but was a little surprised he "went there". I left that church and sat in my car and prayed for guidance. I fear too many people in churches, minsters included, are not as tolerant of others as they should be.

When my daughter was 15 she attended a Baptist Church, a rather large and established one, she brought home a brochure that they had discussed in their youth group titled "What's wrong with Catholicism?" How does one explain to a 15 year old who's father, grandparents and all relatives on her father's side are Catholic, that they aren't going to Hell??

Then there was the conversation between two of my Girl Scouts during a field trip. One was Mormon the other Baptist, and the Baptist pretty much said (they were 14-15) she truly believed the people that went to her Church were the only ones going to heaven and the other girl was damned to Hell because she was a Mormon.

I could go on and on but I think you get the "picture."

My biggest fear is that people will loose their belief in God. That they will turn away because of their doubts. I have seen too many miracles, and have received too many blessings to not believe. Religious tolerance is difficult.

 

[wsstevenson]

I didnt call him retarded or an idiot. I called his comment that. Jesus Christ would you pussies quit with the "Words are mean" crap? Where the hell were the "Hurtful words Police" when I was called a "prick" and a "jerk off" the other day? Oh thats right, I didnt need the "Hurtful words police" because I'm not a whiny little puss. If you look back, all the previous posts are essentially calling people that are "Spiritual" pieces of crap and retarded. I just dont beat around the bush with my words. I'm neither spiritual nor religious so I have no dog in this fight. I will say that 99 percent of religious people are extremely judgemental. I've asked numerous questions about religion and most people just turn their noses up to me because they dont know the answers and think they are better than me because I dont necessarily believe in an absentee landlord. I'm sure this post will censored by the "Pussy Police" and I really couldnt care less.

YOU ARE MY HERO. THANK YOU.

 

[wsstevenson]

I don't think it's any secret that at the very least I'm agnostic and if you had to go a step further I'm an atheist. I just don't believe in anything higher. I tried to. It doesn't work for me. I do believe in treating people well and living a full life (self defined). Death is the end. Period. (I secretly want to believe in reincarnation and there's no evidence to support it). I really don't care what others do or believe. And I'll damn sure poke fun at them and call them hypocrites if I think they are. Some of the worst human beings I know are self proclaimed christ followers.

 

[Madea]

I don't think it's any secret that at the very least I'm agnostic and if you had to go a step further I'm an atheist. I just don't believe in anything higher. I tried to. It doesn't work for me. I do believe in treating people well and living a full life (self defined). Death is the end. Period. (I secretly want to believe in reincarnation and there's no evidence to support it). I really don't care what others do or believe. And I'll damn sure poke fun at them and call them hypocrites if I think they are. Some of the worst human beings I know are self proclaimed christ followers.

I guess the difference is that I wouldn't poke fun of your belief or call you a hypocrite.

I did, however, unfriend a few folks on FB who couldn't resist "poking fun" at what I believe. While I did not believe I was being "targeted", I would have never done the reverse. I suspect that my opinions have caused me to be unfriended by a few as well.

 

[newsjunky]

I didnt call him retarded or an idiot. I called his comment that. Jesus Christ would you pussies quit with the "Words are mean" crap? Where the hell were the "Hurtful words Police" when I was called a "prick" and a "jerk off" the other day? Oh thats right, I didnt need the "Hurtful words police" because I'm not a whiny little puss. If you look back, all the previous posts are essentially calling people that are "Spiritual" pieces of crap and retarded. I just dont beat around the bush with my words. I'm neither spiritual nor religious so I have no dog in this fight. I will say that 99 percent of religious people are extremely judgemental. I've asked numerous questions about religion and most people just turn their noses up to me because they dont know the answers and think they are better than me because I dont necessarily believe in an absentee landlord. I'm sure this post will censored by the "Pussy Police" and I really couldnt care less.

Personally I think you should have to clean up after yourself. I think all who know me know that I would find some of your name calling offensive. Some of your word choices are also demeaning to women as far as I am concerned. You can leave that stuff if you want but I will also leave my opinion of it. :tapfoot2

 

[JMT]

I stand by my statement. If you think it is simply me being a "judgmental Christian" then I suggest 1) you don't know me well enough to judge that, 2) it indicates some pretty obvious prejudices, and 3) that statement is pretty judgmental.

If you get to have prejudices or expectations (depends on perspective?) based on your experiences, then so do I.

I will note that my statement was pretty clearly qualified/limited as being typical in my experience.

Cheers to all.

JMT
...the judgmental and retarded, in the eyes of those apparently smarter and less judgmental

 

[JMT]

One last thing.

This is, or was, a conversation about religious and philosophical ideas, questions and opinions. Can anyone here speak to whether I treat people well whether or not they agree with my philosophical or religious viewpoints? I think they can. In fact, I think that most people I know who disagree with me on such matters would ultimately concede that my real-life, real-world behavior toward others is in fact the furthest thing from the negative stereotype that some would apparently prefer it to be. That would make things much tidier for some.

I can't help but chuckle at how judgmental the vaunted non-judgmental get to be in their own minds. Typically while hiding behind a "spiritual but not religious" shield.

That is all.

 

[newsjunky]

One last thing.

This is, or was, a conversation about religious and philosophical ideas, questions and opinions. Can anyone here speak to whether I treat people well whether or not they agree with my philosophical or religious viewpoints? I think they can. In fact, I think that most people I know who disagree with me on such matters would ultimately concede that my real-life, real-world behavior toward others is in fact the furthest thing from the negative stereotype that some would apparently prefer it to be. That would make things much tidier for some.

I can't help but chuckle at how judgmental the vaunted non-judgmental get to be in their own minds. Typically while hiding behind a "spiritual but not religious" shield.

That is all.

:thumbsup You are a great guy JMT!

 

[MamaHog]

I didnt call him retarded or an idiot. I called his comment that. Jesus Christ would you wusses quit with the "Words are mean" crap? Where the hell were the "Hurtful words Police" when I was called a "prick" and a "jerk off" the other day? Oh thats right, I didnt need the "Hurtful words police" because I'm not a whiny little puss. If you look back, all the previous posts are essentially calling people that are "Spiritual" pieces of crap and retarded. I just dont beat around the bush with my words. I'm neither spiritual nor religious so I have no dog in this fight. I will say that 99 percent of religious people are extremely judgemental. I've asked numerous questions about religion and most people just turn their noses up to me because they dont know the answers and think they are better than me because I dont necessarily believe in an absentee landlord. I'm sure this post will censored by the "Wus Police" and I really couldnt care less.

Personally I think you should have to clean up after yourself. I think all who know me know that I would find some of your name calling offensive. Some of your word choices are also demeaning to women as far as I am concerned. You can leave that stuff if you want but I will also leave my opinion of it. :tapfoot2

I'm confused as to what is demeaning to women.

 

[BeatBoxinGranny47]

I didnt call him retarded or an idiot. I called his comment that. Jesus Christ would you wusses quit with the "Words are mean" crap? Where the hell were the "Hurtful words Police" when I was called a "prick" and a "jerk off" the other day? Oh thats right, I didnt need the "Hurtful words police" because I'm not a whiny little puss. If you look back, all the previous posts are essentially calling people that are "Spiritual" pieces of crap and retarded. I just dont beat around the bush with my words. I'm neither spiritual nor religious so I have no dog in this fight. I will say that 99 percent of religious people are extremely judgemental. I've asked numerous questions about religion and most people just turn their noses up to me because they dont know the answers and think they are better than me because I dont necessarily believe in an absentee landlord. I'm sure this post will censored by the "Wus Police" and I really couldnt care less.

Personally I think you should have to clean up after yourself. I think all who know me know that I would find some of your name calling offensive. Some of your word choices are also demeaning to women as far as I am concerned. You can leave that stuff if you want but I will also leave my opinion of it. :tapfoot2

Please please tell me how I am demeaning towards women and I'll tell you some friggin stories.

 

[MrsAlmostSmith]

One last thing.

This is, or was, a conversation about religious and philosophical ideas, questions and opinions. Can anyone here speak to whether I treat people well whether or not they agree with my philosophical or religious viewpoints? I think they can. In fact, I think that most people I know who disagree with me on such matters would ultimately concede that my real-life, real-world behavior toward others is in fact the furthest thing from the negative stereotype that some would apparently prefer it to be. That would make things much tidier for some.

I can't help but chuckle at how judgmental the vaunted non-judgmental get to be in their own minds. Typically while hiding behind a "spiritual but not religious" shield.

That is all.

Ohhhh, I don't know anything about you. :taunt You could be as sweet as apple pie for all I know. I was just defending myself and saying explaining why I say 'spiritual but not religious' from a non-Christian point of view, and explaining that I definitely don't judge. Or call anyone hypocrites. Or any of that other stuff. Atleast, 99% of the time I try really hard not to - nobody is perfect. But, in my 'religion', worrying about others is a moot point in the first place.

I ask myself daily 'Will this matter in 20 years? 70 years? when I'm dead?....No? Okay, moving on.' <-- that's generally how Buddhists work.

 

[Madea]

I didnt call him retarded or an idiot. I called his comment that. Jesus Christ would you wusses quit with the "Words are mean" crap? Where the hell were the "Hurtful words Police" when I was called a "prick" and a "jerk off" the other day? Oh thats right, I didnt need the "Hurtful words police" because I'm not a whiny little puss. If you look back, all the previous posts are essentially calling people that are "Spiritual" pieces of crap and retarded. I just dont beat around the bush with my words. I'm neither spiritual nor religious so I have no dog in this fight. I will say that 99 percent of religious people are extremely judgemental. I've asked numerous questions about religion and most people just turn their noses up to me because they dont know the answers and think they are better than me because I dont necessarily believe in an absentee landlord. I'm sure this post will censored by the "Wus Police" and I really couldnt care less.

Personally I think you should have to clean up after yourself. I think all who know me know that I would find some of your name calling offensive. Some of your word choices are also demeaning to women as far as I am concerned. You can leave that stuff if you want but I will also leave my opinion of it. :tapfoot2

I'm confused as to what is demeaning to women.

The offensive words have been "auto-edited".

 

[BeatBoxinGranny47]

I stand by my statement. If you think it is simply me being a "judgmental Christian" then I suggest 1) you don't know me well enough to judge that, 2) it indicates some pretty obvious prejudices, and 3) that statement is pretty judgmental.

If you get to have prejudices or expectations (depends on perspective?) based on your experiences, then so do I.

I will note that my statement was pretty clearly qualified/limited as being typical in my experience.

Cheers to all.

JMT
...the judgmental and retarded, in the eyes of those apparently smarter and less judgmental

You can stand by your moronic statement all you want. Did I think it was judgemental? Yes. Am I judgemental? Hell yes. But, do I judge people by their sexual preferences? No. Do Christians? Yes. Is your "Lord" judgemental? Oh hell yes. Did I call you retarded? Nope. So please, dont be retarded and misquote me. I called your comment retarded not you.

 

[MrsAlmostSmith]

I didnt call him retarded or an idiot. I called his comment that. Jesus Christ would you wusses quit with the "Words are mean" crap? Where the hell were the "Hurtful words Police" when I was called a "prick" and a "jerk off" the other day? Oh thats right, I didnt need the "Hurtful words police" because I'm not a whiny little puss. If you look back, all the previous posts are essentially calling people that are "Spiritual" pieces of crap and retarded. I just dont beat around the bush with my words. I'm neither spiritual nor religious so I have no dog in this fight. I will say that 99 percent of religious people are extremely judgemental. I've asked numerous questions about religion and most people just turn their noses up to me because they dont know the answers and think they are better than me because I dont necessarily believe in an absentee landlord. I'm sure this post will censored by the "Wus Police" and I really couldnt care less.

Personally I think you should have to clean up after yourself. I think all who know me know that I would find some of your name calling offensive. Some of your word choices are also demeaning to women as far as I am concerned. You can leave that stuff if you want but I will also leave my opinion of it. :tapfoot2

Please please tell me how I am demeaning towards women and I'll tell you some friggin stories.

Personally, I don't find much demeaning. ;D

Then again, one of my favorite people's favorite words is bloody->insert horrible female-related word here<, and my AlmostHusband, just yesterday, told me I'd know what time it was if I were in my place (in front of the oven).

Not much gets under my skin.

 

[newsjunky]

I didnt call him retarded or an idiot. I called his comment that. Jesus Christ would you wusses quit with the "Words are mean" crap? Where the hell were the "Hurtful words Police" when I was called a "prick" and a "jerk off" the other day? Oh thats right, I didnt need the "Hurtful words police" because I'm not a whiny little puss. If you look back, all the previous posts are essentially calling people that are "Spiritual" pieces of crap and retarded. I just dont beat around the bush with my words. I'm neither spiritual nor religious so I have no dog in this fight. I will say that 99 percent of religious people are extremely judgemental. I've asked numerous questions about religion and most people just turn their noses up to me because they dont know the answers and think they are better than me because I dont necessarily believe in an absentee landlord. I'm sure this post will censored by the "Wus Police" and I really couldnt care less.

Personally I think you should have to clean up after yourself. I think all who know me know that I would find some of your name calling offensive. Some of your word choices are also demeaning to women as far as I am concerned. You can leave that stuff if you want but I will also leave my opinion of it. :tapfoot2

I'm confused as to what is demeaning to women.

Obviously you have a different view or you would not have asked that question. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am (and just as he is). Think the words I was referring to may actually have changed though. No, I did not cause them to.