Very interesting topic concerning the direction of Mary

[Boss 302]

I found this online:

The text even makes clear how Confession is to be conducted. Christ's representative, the priest, must decide whether to forgive or retain. Therefore, the penitent must confess each and every serious sin, that is anything which separates him from Christ. If the priest judges he is truly sorry, He must absolve since Christ's Passion merited forgiveness for every repentant sinner. Only if the person shows no willingness to give up sin does the priest retain, that is withhold absolution, as we "do not give what is holy to dogs" (Mt 7:6).

This doesn't make sense to me because Christ died on the cross to forgive us for our sins. Jesus made that decision because it was God's will. Why should it be up to a priest to decide whether a person is truly sorry or not and then decide based on that to absolve or retain the sin? That doesn't make sense to me at all. Jesus said the way to God is through him; not someone else.

Well it is a little more in depth than that. Didn't Jesus also give authority to man to forgive? (Matthew I believe) And to the Apostles. You have penance, confession and reconciliation involved. There is a website called Catholic Answers that you could read if you are interested. (and I will not be bothered if you are not ) ) It answers most questions that people have in way to make it easier to understand.

Jesus died on the cross for our sins. When he filled the apostles with the Holy Spirit and told them if they forgive people for their sins they are forgiven and if they didn't forgive them for their sins, the sins are retained; he was telling them to forgive them as He forgave them. Jesus forgave us for all our sins and the apostles were obligated as all Christians are to forgive people for the sins they commit. Many of us have said before in discussions about homosexuals, "Love the sinner, but not the sin." How can show love if you cannot forgive them?

If I commit a sin against you and then ask you for forgiveness and you grant it; the sin should be forgotten. If you do not forgive me, then you retain that sin; you're hanging on to it. I can go directly to God in prayer and ask him to forgive me for the sin I committed against you and he will forgive me because his word says so. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness" 1 John 1:9. "If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land" 2 Chronicles 7:14.

People don't need an intermediary to receive forgiveness as God will forgive those who confess their sins to him.

Fine, don't become catholic.

No problem there.

 

[Blazing Saddles]

The issue I see that has directed many beliefs of the Catholic church over the years pertains more to tradition than scripture. Also, when the Vatican declares a teaching, over the years, the church builds upon the new teaching instead of the direct scripture. The Bible clearly teaches us that Mary is blessed above all others but only to the tune that she was chosen to carry the Messiah. Someone had to and God chose her. That is where it began and stopped according to scripture. Early on, the Catholic church gave Mary a special status and it continued to evolve from there until it doesn't resemble the original intent of the Bible. In order for the Church to justify their stance, they use each step of the progression of Mary and work backwards until they get back to a particular scripture reference. (ie. Mary was blessed above all others. Mary conceived without sex. Mary gave birth to Jesus. Jesus was God. Mary is the mother of God. Mary must be sinless like Jesus and there for "Immaculate". Mary ascended to heaven like Jesus. Mary must be _______! ) This is a natural progression of thought found throughout human behavior. For Protestants who believe that the preservation of God only comes through the preservation of the Scriptures, this type of belief system is destined to change over the years. In fact, it has changed from what it originally was. That's why there is a big separation today in who and what believes. From the statement Jesus made to Peter "Whatever you bind here on earth, I will bind in heaven.....", the Catholic church has interpreted that as a freedom to decide a whole lot of things; even to the point of contradicting the scriptures.....at least from Protestant views. With this said, it's not about "who" is right, instead, what is right. Right never changes and wrong never becomes right. As Christians believe, the scriptures hold the key to truth and it never changes. For those who care, I believe there are Christians found in the Catholic church just as there are non Christians found serving in Protestant churches. Jesus, and Him only, has taught us the He is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" and nobody will get to the Father unless they pass through Him. Jesus NEVER mentions anything else or another path. He NEVER mentions He needs help on-His part of Salvation. He states He will send the Holy Spirit to those who believe in Him but that is it. I don't follow a man or the church's by-laws. I don't read someone's interpretation of God for salvation. I don't do rituals to prove anything to God either. I do believe what the Bible says LITERALLY when necessary and that's it. From what that teaches, all else is not right. That's not me condemning anything, instead it's me proclaiming what I believe to be the Truth.

 

[honeybunny]

The issue I see that has directed many beliefs of the Catholic church over the years pertains more to tradition than scripture. Also, when the Vatican declares a teaching, over the years, the church builds upon the new teaching instead of the direct scripture. The Bible clearly teaches us that Mary is blessed above all others but only to the tune that she was chosen to carry the Messiah. Someone had to and God chose her. That is where it began and stopped according to scripture. Early on, the Catholic church gave Mary a special status and it continued to evolve from there until it doesn't resemble the original intent of the Bible. In order for the Church to justify their stance, they use each step of the progression of Mary and work backwards until they get back to a particular scripture reference. (ie. Mary was blessed above all others. Mary conceived without sex. Mary gave birth to Jesus. Jesus was God. Mary is the mother of God. Mary must be sinless like Jesus and there for "Immaculate". Mary ascended to heaven like Jesus. Mary must be _______! ) This is a natural progression of thought found throughout human behavior. For Protestants who believe that the preservation of God only comes through the preservation of the Scriptures, this type of belief system is destined to change over the years. In fact, it has changed from what it originally was. That's why there is a big separation today in who and what believes. From the statement Jesus made to Peter "Whatever you bind here on earth, I will bind in heaven.....", the Catholic church has interpreted that as a freedom to decide a whole lot of things; even to the point of contradicting the scriptures.....at least from Protestant views. With this said, it's not about "who" is right, instead, what is right. Right never changes and wrong never becomes right. As Christians believe, the scriptures hold the key to truth and it never changes. For those who care, I believe there are Christians found in the Catholic church just as there are non Christians found serving in Protestant churches. Jesus, and Him only, has taught us the He is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" and nobody will get to the Father unless they pass through Him. Jesus NEVER mentions anything else or another path. He NEVER mentions He needs help on-His part of Salvation. He states He will send the Holy Spirit to those who believe in Him but that is it. I don't follow a man or the church's by-laws. I don't read someone's interpretation of God for salvation. I don't do rituals to prove anything to God either. I do believe what the Bible says LITERALLY when necessary and that's it. From what that teaches, all else is not right. That's not me condemning anything, instead it's me proclaiming what I believe to be the Truth.

Speaking of following the bible literally :


http://dallashwy.com/index.php/topic,19815.0.html


stirthepot2

 

[LisaC]

The issue I see that has directed many beliefs of the Catholic church over the years pertains more to tradition than scripture. Also, when the Vatican declares a teaching, over the years, the church builds upon the new teaching instead of the direct scripture. The Bible clearly teaches us that Mary is blessed above all others but only to the tune that she was chosen to carry the Messiah. Someone had to and God chose her. That is where it began and stopped according to scripture. Early on, the Catholic church gave Mary a special status and it continued to evolve from there until it doesn't resemble the original intent of the Bible. In order for the Church to justify their stance, they use each step of the progression of Mary and work backwards until they get back to a particular scripture reference. (ie. Mary was blessed above all others. Mary conceived without sex. Mary gave birth to Jesus. Jesus was God. Mary is the mother of God. Mary must be sinless like Jesus and there for "Immaculate". Mary ascended to heaven like Jesus. Mary must be _______! ) This is a natural progression of thought found throughout human behavior. For Protestants who believe that the preservation of God only comes through the preservation of the Scriptures, this type of belief system is destined to change over the years. In fact, it has changed from what it originally was. That's why there is a big separation today in who and what believes. From the statement Jesus made to Peter "Whatever you bind here on earth, I will bind in heaven.....", the Catholic church has interpreted that as a freedom to decide a whole lot of things; even to the point of contradicting the scriptures.....at least from Protestant views. With this said, it's not about "who" is right, instead, what is right. Right never changes and wrong never becomes right. As Christians believe, the scriptures hold the key to truth and it never changes. For those who care, I believe there are Christians found in the Catholic church just as there are non Christians found serving in Protestant churches. Jesus, and Him only, has taught us the He is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" and nobody will get to the Father unless they pass through Him. Jesus NEVER mentions anything else or another path. He NEVER mentions He needs help on-His part of Salvation. He states He will send the Holy Spirit to those who believe in Him but that is it. I don't follow a man or the church's by-laws. I don't read someone's interpretation of God for salvation. I don't do rituals to prove anything to God either. I do believe what the Bible says LITERALLY when necessary and that's it. From what that teaches, all else is not right. That's not me condemning anything, instead it's me proclaiming what I believe to be the Truth.

When necessary?? :cantbelievemyeyes I just noticed that when HB bolded it above. Was that intentional or did you edit your post and forget to take that out. If it's intentional, when is "when necessary"? :dunno

HB, I've got to remember to download that book on my iPad - it sounds like a great book!

 

[Blazing Saddles]

Perhaps a bad wording and a poor editing job. My clarification would be that I take scripture literally when it is presenting itself literally and figuratively when it presents itself that way. An example like "I am the vine, you are the branches" is a figurative expression. We know Jesus isn't actually a vine. When he says "I go and prepare a place for you", we know that is literal. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[LisaC]

Perhaps a bad wording and a poor editing job. My clarification would be that I take scripture literally when it is presenting itself literally and figuratively when it presents itself that way. An example like "I am the vine, you are the branches" is a figurative expression. We know Jesus isn't actually a vine. When he says "I go and prepare a place for you", we know that is literal. Sorry for the confusion.

That's honestly what I thought, but since it was posted by you, I just had to ask! :Ninja