Same-Sex Marriage and Free Exercise

[Guard Dad]

OK, granted that this comes from a partisan source, but it got me thinking. And I wouldn't put such a plan past this administration.

http://conservativetribune.com/obamas-lawyer-admission/

Thoughts?

 

[stradial]

Marriage is a legal contract and does not need, nor require, a preacher, a church, nor a religion.
Anyone who pushes to have a specific religion or preacher/priest/rabbi/goddess or whatever preform a marriage ceremony, when that religion or person does not condone that marriage, is just looking for attention or to cause a problem.

There is no "preacher" I can think of, that I would ever ask to preside over my marriage ceremony, I was just fine with Judge "whatever her name was" completing our marital contract.

However, others may feel differently about having a "pastor" conduct the service.

I used quote marks for preacher and pastor because I was trying to show these were meant to be general terms, as different religions have different names for their religious leaders.

 

[Guard Dad]

But many people of faith want a religious wedding ceremony. And I know many gay people of faith (their possible selective belief in said faith is for another debate) who might want a religious wedding too.

 

[stradial]

But many people of faith want a religious wedding ceremony. And I know many gay people of faith (their possible selective belief in said faith is for another debate) who might want a religious wedding too.

I am quite sure that gay people of faith can find many religious leaders that will be happy to marry them.
I would have a hard time understanding how a gay person could or would belong to a church that condemns them and their marriage.

Not real sure why anyone wants to be married by some "preacher", but that is up to each person.
I often wonder, if the "preacher" that marries you, later gets run out of that church or gets caught with the church secretary or gets caught dipping into the offering money, does that affect how you see your marriage ceremony?

 

[Guard Dad]

But many people of faith want a religious wedding ceremony. And I know many gay people of faith (their possible selective belief in said faith is for another debate) who might want a religious wedding too.

I am quite sure that gay people of faith can find many religious leaders that will be happy to marry them.
I would have a hard time understanding how a gay person could or would belong to a church that condemns them and their marriage.

Not real sure why anyone wants to be married by some "preacher", but that is up to each person.
I often wonder, if the "preacher" that marries you, later gets run out of that church or gets caught with the church secretary or gets caught dipping into the offering money, does that affect how you see your marriage ceremony?

Though marriage is a legal arrangement, it's important to some to have the "blessing" of the church upon their marriage. I think it's especially important if you are a regular church goer and/or a member of a church to have "your" pastor perform the wedding. It was for us.

I know several gay people who profess to be Christian. I could understand them wanting a church wedding too.

 

[mei lan]

I don't see a gay couple wanting a hardline conservative pastor marrying them, or going to his church. There are plenty of gay-friendly pastors and congregations to choose from.

 

[honeybunny]

Shut up they explained :


Yes, the argument was always made: "Why not agree to this, as this will affect your lives not at all?"

But then, the moment the gay left has some momentum, we learn: "Oh yes, we certainly intend that this will affect your
lives in all sorts of ways; we in fact demand you rewrite your very religion to re-architect your beliefs to better serve us."


http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=356523


:whistle

 

[Boss 302]

I don't see a gay couple wanting a hardline conservative pastor marrying them, or going to his church. There are plenty of gay-friendly pastors and congregations to choose from.

I see where there would be gays who would push the issue of ministers refusing to perform marriage ceremonies for them. Some will do it for the media attention. We've seen that happen before with bakeries that refused to make wedding cakes. You don't really think gays would exempt churches from some of their hatred do you?

 

[ShoeDiva]

I don't see a gay couple wanting a hardline conservative pastor marrying them, or going to his church. There are plenty of gay-friendly pastors and congregations to choose from.

I see where there would be gays who would push the issue of ministers refusing to perform marriage ceremonies for them. Some will do it for the media attention. We've seen that happen before with bakeries that refused to make wedding cakes. You don't really think gays would exempt churches from some of their hatred do you?

:huh Yeah, I see so much hatred from gays. /s

 

[ShoeDiva]

OK, granted that this comes from a partisan source, but it got me thinking. And I wouldn't put such a plan past this administration.

http://conservativetribune.com/obamas-lawyer-admission/

Thoughts?

At the rate we are going we will have the same type of administration next time.
The article, eh.

 

[Guard Dad]

I don't see a gay couple wanting a hardline conservative pastor marrying them, or going to his church. There are plenty of gay-friendly pastors and congregations to choose from.

I see where there would be gays who would push the issue of ministers refusing to perform marriage ceremonies for them. Some will do it for the media attention. We've seen that happen before with bakeries that refused to make wedding cakes. You don't really think gays would exempt churches from some of their hatred do you?

:huh Yeah, I see so much hatred from gays. /s

There is plenty on both sides. Boss has a good point about the bakery case; what they did to the bakery owners was hateful.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I don't see a gay couple wanting a hardline conservative pastor marrying them, or going to his church. There are plenty of gay-friendly pastors and congregations to choose from.

I see where there would be gays who would push the issue of ministers refusing to perform marriage ceremonies for them. Some will do it for the media attention. We've seen that happen before with bakeries that refused to make wedding cakes. You don't really think gays would exempt churches from some of their hatred do you?

:huh Yeah, I see so much hatred from gays. /s

There is plenty on both sides. Boss has a good point about the bakery case; what they did to the bakery owners was hateful.

He said gays in the last sentence, lumping them in a group. Just saying. Some Christians are the most hateful people I know, but all are not. It could be he meant some, and just did not write it that way.
Also, what the bakery did in the one case was just as hateful when the gay couple was a good customer of theirs and they would bake for them and take their money, but refused to bake the cake because it was a wedding cake. JMO

 

[Guard Dad]

I don't see a gay couple wanting a hardline conservative pastor marrying them, or going to his church. There are plenty of gay-friendly pastors and congregations to choose from.

I see where there would be gays who would push the issue of ministers refusing to perform marriage ceremonies for them. Some will do it for the media attention. We've seen that happen before with bakeries that refused to make wedding cakes. You don't really think gays would exempt churches from some of their hatred do you?

:huh Yeah, I see so much hatred from gays. /s

There is plenty on both sides. Boss has a good point about the bakery case; what they did to the bakery owners was hateful.

He said gays in the last sentence, lumping them in a group. Just saying. Some Christians are the most hateful people I know, but all are not. It could be he meant some, and just did not write it that way.
Also, what the bakery did in the one case was just as hateful when the gay couple was a good customer of theirs and they would bake for them and take their money, but refused to bake the cake because it was a wedding cake. JMO

I disagree. While I wouldn't have handled it like they did; they were simply staying true to their beliefs. I can't fault them for that.

 

[mei lan]

I don't see a gay couple wanting a hardline conservative pastor marrying them, or going to his church. There are plenty of gay-friendly pastors and congregations to choose from.

I see where there would be gays who would push the issue of ministers refusing to perform marriage ceremonies for them. Some will do it for the media attention. We've seen that happen before with bakeries that refused to make wedding cakes. You don't really think gays would exempt churches from some of their hatred do you?

Some rabble-rousers, no. Most of them, yes. And I see the bakery as a different issue as it is a business open to the public. Ministers have never ever been required to marry anybody they didn't want to marry, for any reason they didn't want to marry them.

 

[mei lan]

Shut up they explained :


Yes, the argument was always made: "Why not agree to this, as this will affect your lives not at all?"

But then, the moment the gay left has some momentum, we learn: "Oh yes, we certainly intend that this will affect your
lives in all sorts of ways; we in fact demand you rewrite your very religion to re-architect your beliefs to better serve us."


http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=356523


:whistle

I'm sorry - I cannot click on your link, hb. I don't have time today to sit around reading moron/moronette comments and spending hours laughing hysterically. I swear, when I need something to laugh at, that's the natural place to turn. Those peeps be wild!

 

[Madea]

I don't think it's about marriage for a good portion.

You will be made to care.

 

[Boss 302]

I don't see a gay couple wanting a hardline conservative pastor marrying them, or going to his church. There are plenty of gay-friendly pastors and congregations to choose from.

I see where there would be gays who would push the issue of ministers refusing to perform marriage ceremonies for them. Some will do it for the media attention. We've seen that happen before with bakeries that refused to make wedding cakes. You don't really think gays would exempt churches from some of their hatred do you?

:huh Yeah, I see so much hatred from gays. /s

There is plenty on both sides. Boss has a good point about the bakery case; what they did to the bakery owners was hateful.

That's exactly my point. If the SCOTUS rules in favor of gay marriages, there will be a lot of ministers who will deny marrying gays as it will go against their Biblical beliefs. There will be no doubt some gay couple who when refused by a minister to marry them will want to seek "justice" through legal proceedings just as the gay couple did to the baker. There will no doubt be some gay couple who will intentionally go to ministers, not to find one who will actually conduct the wedding ceremony, but with the intent to find one who refuses to so they can make a federal case of it.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I disagree. While I wouldn't have handled it like they did; they were simply staying true to their beliefs. I can't fault them for that.

Their beliefs allowed them to sell to them as a gay couple, living together, but once the word marriage was brought up, it was not allowed. I would have had more respect for them (since they knew) had they not served them at all. (respect as in, standing up for themselves and their beliefs whether I agree with them or not.) People just pick and chose what sin they are so against and let the others go.... a bit crazy in my opinion.
According to the bible living together is a sin, they also believe homosexuality is a sin, and marriage of the opposite sex. The first two were okay to start, but the third made a difference? To me, at least, it is hypocritical and what gives strength to peoples arguments against religions.
Again, their business, stand for what you want, but accept the consequences of the stand.
Disclaimer: I have no clue about ALL the cake issues and ALL the pizza or other business issues, and those could be different. I am only speaking of the first one that came to the news front and I read. Situations in each are different and my thoughts and feelings could be different in an instance where someone went after the other purposely to hurt them. (business)

 

[ShoeDiva]

I don't see a gay couple wanting a hardline conservative pastor marrying them, or going to his church. There are plenty of gay-friendly pastors and congregations to choose from.

I see where there would be gays who would push the issue of ministers refusing to perform marriage ceremonies for them. Some will do it for the media attention. We've seen that happen before with bakeries that refused to make wedding cakes. You don't really think gays would exempt churches from some of their hatred do you?

:huh Yeah, I see so much hatred from gays. /s

There is plenty on both sides. Boss has a good point about the bakery case; what they did to the bakery owners was hateful.

That's exactly my point. If the SCOTUS rules in favor of gay marriages, there will be a lot of ministers who will deny marrying gays as it will go against their Biblical beliefs. There will be no doubt some gay couple who when refused by a minister to marry them will want to seek "justice" through legal proceedings just as the gay couple did to the baker. There will no doubt be some gay couple who will intentionally go to ministers, not to find one who will actually conduct the wedding ceremony, but with the intent to find one who refuses to so they can make a federal case of it.

And that is sad. It is not fair to make a whole group look bad because one couple wants to make a point.

 

[Boss 302]

I disagree. While I wouldn't have handled it like they did; they were simply staying true to their beliefs. I can't fault them for that.

Their beliefs allowed them to sell to them as a gay couple, living together, but once the word marriage was brought up, it was not allowed. I would have had more respect for them (since they knew) had they not served them at all. (respect as in, standing up for themselves and their beliefs whether I agree with them or not.) People just pick and chose what sin they are so against and let the others go.... a bit crazy in my opinion.
According to the bible living together is a sin, they also believe homosexuality is a sin, and marriage of the opposite sex. The first two were okay to start, but the third made a difference? To me, at least, it is hypocritical and what gives strength to peoples arguments against religions.
Again, their business, stand for what you want, but accept the consequences of the stand.
Disclaimer: I have no clue about ALL the cake issues and ALL the pizza or other business issues, and those could be different. I am only speaking of the first one that came to the news front and I read. Situations in each are different and my thoughts and feelings could be different in an instance where someone went after the other purposely to hurt them. (business)

There's a difference in reasons for buying bread and wedding cakes. A wedding cake is a symbolic of the wedding itself. Bread, cupcakes, donuts, etc are not. The baker felt if he made them a wedding cake, it would be condoning gay marriage.