Madea
zip a dee doo dah
Why do we call those who choose a more strict adherence "legalist"? I'm not sure how I feel about this fully, because I am not personally effected. I have an uncle who's been married three times and would love to be a deacon (like my Dad) but is not able to do so in a Baptist church because of his prior marriages. His personal interpretation (which could be tarnished by his own circumstances) is that he's only had one wife at a time. We had a wonderful gentleman at our church who would have (in my personal opinion) made a good deacon and would have been a good example for the younger generations, but, of his own choosing, would not accept the position because he had also been married prior to his current wife. He accepted that decision gracefully and continued to set examples and serve in other manners.
Do I think divorce is an unforgiveable sin? No, absolutely not. I'm just not 100% sure where the true answer is right now without exploring it more within my own heart. I do know that God intended marriage to mirror the love that He showed for us. Do we sometimes fall short in our relationship with Him as we also do in our other relationships? Yes, absolutely. See, quite the conundrum.
Do I think divorce is an unforgiveable sin? No, absolutely not. I'm just not 100% sure where the true answer is right now without exploring it more within my own heart. I do know that God intended marriage to mirror the love that He showed for us. Do we sometimes fall short in our relationship with Him as we also do in our other relationships? Yes, absolutely. See, quite the conundrum.
F
Foxmeister
Guest
I read an interesting article one time where a theologist wrote God only condoned divorces in cases where a Jew was married to someone who wasn't a Jew because God wanted to keep the Jews bloodline pure. I actually find that hard to believe because Christ died on the cross for the sins of all mankind, not just Jews. It was God's plan all along to have his Son die for all.
In the Bible, is there any one sin that is worse than any other sin? I was always told all sins are equally bad in the eyes of God. I heard somewhere, perhaps it was a post one time here, that there was a Baptist preacher who had been married and divorced one time when he was young. However, he told everyone his entire adult life as a preacher, his first wife had died and that is why he was able to remarry without sin. The truth was, she was still alive when he had remarried.
God is a loving God. I firmly believe he intends for us to live happy and productive lives. I don't think God intends for anyone to be miserable living alone. Some people are happy to live alone and never marry. The point is God intends for us to be happy.
The Bible says if a man divorces his wife, he must provide her with a divorce decree. This was to allow her to remarry without being accused of adultery. If she remarried and then was not considered an adultress, then it only make sense the man would not be considered an adulterer if he remarried as the divorce decree states they are no longer married to each other.
In the Bible, is there any one sin that is worse than any other sin? I was always told all sins are equally bad in the eyes of God. I heard somewhere, perhaps it was a post one time here, that there was a Baptist preacher who had been married and divorced one time when he was young. However, he told everyone his entire adult life as a preacher, his first wife had died and that is why he was able to remarry without sin. The truth was, she was still alive when he had remarried.
God is a loving God. I firmly believe he intends for us to live happy and productive lives. I don't think God intends for anyone to be miserable living alone. Some people are happy to live alone and never marry. The point is God intends for us to be happy.
The Bible says if a man divorces his wife, he must provide her with a divorce decree. This was to allow her to remarry without being accused of adultery. If she remarried and then was not considered an adultress, then it only make sense the man would not be considered an adulterer if he remarried as the divorce decree states they are no longer married to each other.
I'm Floored
Lover of BS!
I think I look at things very differently than others. Please understand, I am not dismissing God's Holy Words! Nothing is more sacred to me! I can't stress this enough!
But we must look at what Jesus' purpose was when He said what He did. Christ's purpose was to show our need for a Savior. Scripture tells us that the Law exists only to point us to Grace. Anyone who has studied the Bible knows that many men follow the Law, but are lost....because they have no relationship with Jesus.
The Bible tells us all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable. The Bible says that a man who marries a divorced woman causes her to commit adultery. The Bible also says that any man who lusts after a woman in his heart has committed adultery. God wants us to see that NO ONE can do this on his own. No matter how "good" someone is, we all fall short of His goodness, and we need Him for completion.
As far as the particular Scripture in 1 Timothy....Christ previously spoke very specifically about the circumstance of divorce. If this particular passage had been directed toward that circumstance, do you believe Paul would have specifically mentioned divorce here, as well? Please remember, many men in that culture still married more than one woman.
For me, Gen, I'll answer your question about which of Christ's commands I follow. I try to follow ALL of them. Not because I have to in order to serve in a certain way in church, or because I'll receive accolades from my peers in the church body. I do it because I love Him. I'm thankful for the way He has healed, restored, and redeemed me. I want to please HIM (not anyone else.) I don't always get it right, but He always gently returns me to His side, because He loved me first.
But we must look at what Jesus' purpose was when He said what He did. Christ's purpose was to show our need for a Savior. Scripture tells us that the Law exists only to point us to Grace. Anyone who has studied the Bible knows that many men follow the Law, but are lost....because they have no relationship with Jesus.
The Bible tells us all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable. The Bible says that a man who marries a divorced woman causes her to commit adultery. The Bible also says that any man who lusts after a woman in his heart has committed adultery. God wants us to see that NO ONE can do this on his own. No matter how "good" someone is, we all fall short of His goodness, and we need Him for completion.
As far as the particular Scripture in 1 Timothy....Christ previously spoke very specifically about the circumstance of divorce. If this particular passage had been directed toward that circumstance, do you believe Paul would have specifically mentioned divorce here, as well? Please remember, many men in that culture still married more than one woman.
For me, Gen, I'll answer your question about which of Christ's commands I follow. I try to follow ALL of them. Not because I have to in order to serve in a certain way in church, or because I'll receive accolades from my peers in the church body. I do it because I love Him. I'm thankful for the way He has healed, restored, and redeemed me. I want to please HIM (not anyone else.) I don't always get it right, but He always gently returns me to His side, because He loved me first.
G
Genevieve
Guest
ShoeDiva said:
With divorce and remarriage, that is the crux of the matter, persisting in the serious sin of adultery.
But I think the Catholic Church handles this with great understanding of human nature as well. What if you don't qualify for an annulment, and you'll be miserable living alone? Well...you're weak(!)...but we're all weak in some way or another. God knows we're weak and he forgives us. The answer is that while this impossible situation persists, you're excluded from the Eucharist. The community offers you tremendous solicitude and love, and you love God and others with great humility and receive the graces of that. It all works that way pretty beautifully.
I was in this situation myself for over a year, not because of divorce and annulment, but because, when I came back to the Church, I could not receive the Holy Eucharist until my good Protestant marriage was convalidated. It was difficult and humbling, but it increased my longing for the Eucharist and my love for God and the Church.
LisaC
I'm here to spin the moral compass.
Who created/instituted "annulments"? The Church or the Bible? Everything I'm reading says that annulments were created by the Catholic Church as a way to dissolve a marriage without a divorce. This is where I need help because that makes it sound like the church just simply came up with a way to dissolve a marriage without actually calling it a divorce... Insight??
Madea
zip a dee doo dah
I am sure the majority of you know what I do for a living. Do I condemn ANYONE for divorcing? No. I do not even judge their reasoning. That's not my place. At the end of my day what helps me through are those who simply say I could not have gotten through this difficult time without you. Honestly, I believe that's the Christian role I was called to play.
G
Genevieve
Guest
LisaC said:
An annulment does not dissolve a marriage. It states that a marriage never existed in the first place--that there was some circumstance which prevented one or both parties from freely choosing this vocation. It is not always granted. Sometimes no such circumstance existed.
G
Genevieve
Guest
Madea said:
Right. I agree. We cannot know the difficulties that other people face. Civil divorce takes care of the civil, legal matters of separation. But remarriage is another story. Our Lord said this constitutes adultery, and there is no way around that.
G
Genevieve
Guest
I'm Floored said:
I think you sincerely love God, and I love that about anyone. :love
G
Genevieve
Guest
LisaC said:
Don't worry. I will try to answer your questions as best I can without messing up too much.
) First of all, the Church does not/could not ever go up to two unsuspecting Catholics on the street and say that their Sacraments never existed. In the case of an annulment, however, it is the two people themselves who go before the Church and say that the Sacrament never existed. It is up to the Church to either confirm that or let the couple know that the Sacrament does, in fact, exist. Do you see the difference?
mei lan
Pursuit Driver
Madea said:
Speaking for myself, I was referring to those who adhere to rigid rules and traditions of men rather than truly studying and correctly interpreting the Scripture and then doing their best to live by them. I believe they do this because they can then control their own lives and feel superior to others, instead of experiencing brokenness and total abandonment to Christ.
I am 100% committed to the Scripture, and I probably come closest to the RC view on divorce (grounds being adultery, and abandonment [which includes abuse and addiction]). But it's the ATTITUDE of the heart I'm talking about. Sort of like the lady who jumped all over Waski the other day because his church did the funeral for the drug addict who died and didn't have a church home.