S/O Of Stellavore\'s S/O in General Discussion

[Foxmeister]

In Stellarvores S/O topic about his dating experience, an interesting point about church was brought up. GD made an excellent comment that churches were for sinners, not the pure and saints.

When I lived in MI, I had a big problem with cliques in churches. It seemed every church had them and the wealthiest cliques thought they ran the church. Pastors caved into the cliques made up of the well-to-do.

Many pastors in GA will not marry anyone who is divorced. I've heard many stories from people who were divorced and remarrying say they were told by some pastors they wouldn't perform the marriage ceremony because they would be fornicators. Obviously, these pastors believe if you were married to an unbeliever or someone who beat the crap out of you almost every day, that you should have remained married. I don't get this at all.

 

[Genevieve]

Fox,

I'm not sure what the pastors you are talking about believe, but I belong to a church that does not allow divorce and remarriage.
If a spouse were in physical danger, then a he or she could (in fact, SHOULD!) separate from the dangerous spouse. It is called a "therapeutic separation," and can be for as long as necessary, even forever. If this marriage were to be annulled, then the parties would be free to marry (again).

 

[ShoeDiva]

In Stellarvores S/O topic about his dating experience, an interesting point about church was brought up. GD made an excellent comment that churches were for sinners, not the pure and saints.

When I lived in MI, I had a big problem with cliques in churches. It seemed every church had them and the wealthiest cliques thought they ran the church. Pastors caved into the cliques made up of the well-to-do.

Many pastors in GA will not marry anyone who is divorced. I've heard many stories from people who were divorced and remarrying say they were told by some pastors they wouldn't perform the marriage ceremony because they would be fornicators. Obviously, these pastors believe if you were married to an unbeliever or someone who beat the crap out of you almost every day, that you should have remained married. I don't get this at all.

Hilarious. Please direct me to that pastor I have a few words for him. :Stick
Okay really, I know of not one pastor (not that I know a whole lot, but I do have quite a few in my circle of friends) that would agree with your statement. Especially the "beat the crap" out of you. As G said, and we are a pretty strict religion, our priest would even advise you to leave and if necessary, get the marriage annulled. (Why would you marry an unbeliever (I am guessing you mean someone that does not believe in God?) to begin with? That would be a problem waiting to happen.Just sayin'.)
I am not "all for" a pastor, minister, priest, not remarrying people, but maybe more people would not just get married if it was not so easy to get out. We grew apart, we were young, eh, crap. Marriages have many seasons, good and bad, and many do not stick around for the bad. It is too easy to get out of the storm and not ride it out. (again if someone is hitting you..GET OUT...do not stick that out, they do not stop.)

Now with the cliques...I have to say you are very on the mark. I have visited many different churches, both up North and here, and across the religions I have seen that too. Sad. It does run many a person off.

 

[Foxmeister]

I've met a few Baptist and Pentacostal preachers who believe you're still married to your ex even after divorce. The only church I've heard of that grants annulments is the Catholic church, yet you still have to get divorced first.

SD,

In Stellarvores S/O topic about his dating experience, an interesting point about church was brought up. GD made an excellent comment that churches were for sinners, not the pure and saints.

When I lived in MI, I had a big problem with cliques in churches. It seemed every church had them and the wealthiest cliques thought they ran the church. Pastors caved into the cliques made up of the well-to-do.

Many pastors in GA will not marry anyone who is divorced. I've heard many stories from people who were divorced and remarrying say they were told by some pastors they wouldn't perform the marriage ceremony because they would be fornicators. Obviously, these pastors believe if you were married to an unbeliever or someone who beat the crap out of you almost every day, that you should have remained married. I don't get this at all.

Hilarious. Please direct me to that pastor I have a few words for him. :Stick
Okay really, I know of not one pastor (not that I know a whole lot, but I do have quite a few in my circle of friends) that would agree with your statement. Especially the "beat the crap" out of you. As G said, and we are a pretty strict religion, our priest would even advise you to leave and if necessary, get the marriage annulled. (Why would you marry an unbeliever (I am guessing you mean someone that does not believe in God?) to begin with? That would be a problem waiting to happen.Just sayin'.)
I am not "all for" a pastor, minister, priest, not remarrying people, but maybe more people would not just get married if it was not so easy to get out. We grew apart, we were young, eh, crap. Marriages have many seasons, good and bad, and many do not stick around for the bad. It is too easy to get out of the storm and not ride it out. (again if someone is hitting you..GET OUT...do not stick that out, they do not stop.)

Now with the cliques...I have to say you are very on the mark. I have visited many different churches, both up North and here, and across the religions I have seen that too. Sad. It does run many a person off.

I've met a few Baptist and Pentacostal preachers who believe you're still married to your ex even after divorce. The only church I've heard of that grants annulments is the Catholic church, yet you still have to get divorced first.

Some Christians marry non-Christians. You also see where two non-Christians marry each other, but during the course of the marriage, one becomes a Christian and the other has no interests in God whatsoever.

In the Bible it shows three reasons for the dissolution of a marrige. The first is obviously death. Romans 7:2

The second is adultery or immorality by one of the married couple. Matthew 19:9

The third is found in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16. If the unbeliever spouse leaves the believing spouse, the believing spouse is no longer bound.

There are those Christians who belive if you remarry after a divorce, you are committing adultery. Are they right?

 

[ShoeDiva]

I've met a few Baptist and Pentacostal preachers who believe you're still married to your ex even after divorce. The only church I've heard of that grants annulments is the Catholic church, yet you still have to get divorced first.

SD,

In Stellarvores S/O topic about his dating experience, an interesting point about church was brought up. GD made an excellent comment that churches were for sinners, not the pure and saints.

When I lived in MI, I had a big problem with cliques in churches. It seemed every church had them and the wealthiest cliques thought they ran the church. Pastors caved into the cliques made up of the well-to-do.

Many pastors in GA will not marry anyone who is divorced. I've heard many stories from people who were divorced and remarrying say they were told by some pastors they wouldn't perform the marriage ceremony because they would be fornicators. Obviously, these pastors believe if you were married to an unbeliever or someone who beat the crap out of you almost every day, that you should have remained married. I don't get this at all.

Hilarious. Please direct me to that pastor I have a few words for him. :Stick
Okay really, I know of not one pastor (not that I know a whole lot, but I do have quite a few in my circle of friends) that would agree with your statement. Especially the "beat the crap" out of you. As G said, and we are a pretty strict religion, our priest would even advise you to leave and if necessary, get the marriage annulled. (Why would you marry an unbeliever (I am guessing you mean someone that does not believe in God?) to begin with? That would be a problem waiting to happen.Just sayin'.)
I am not "all for" a pastor, minister, priest, not remarrying people, but maybe more people would not just get married if it was not so easy to get out. We grew apart, we were young, eh, crap. Marriages have many seasons, good and bad, and many do not stick around for the bad. It is too easy to get out of the storm and not ride it out. (again if someone is hitting you..GET OUT...do not stick that out, they do not stop.)

Now with the cliques...I have to say you are very on the mark. I have visited many different churches, both up North and here, and across the religions I have seen that too. Sad. It does run many a person off.

I've met a few Baptist and Pentacostal preachers who believe you're still married to your ex even after divorce. The only church I've heard of that grants annulments is the Catholic church, yet you still have to get divorced first.

Some Christians marry non-Christians. You also see where two non-Christians marry each other, but during the course of the marriage, one becomes a Christian and the other has no interests in God whatsoever.

In the Bible it shows three reasons for the dissolution of a marrige. The first is obviously death. Romans 7:2

The second is adultery or immorality by one of the married couple. Matthew 19:9

The third is found in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16. If the unbeliever spouse leaves the believing spouse, the believing spouse is no longer bound.

There are those Christians who belive if you remarry after a divorce, you are committing adultery. Are they right?

Who believes that? (adultery) "Those" is a broad sweep.

You mention Baptist and pentecostal preachers that still believe you are married after divorce, but do any of them believe in any reason for divorce? You brought up beating, are you saying that they believe you should stay? (I am just finding that insane that they would advise that.Not saying you are wrong they believe that, just that it is crazy.) Is this belief of your ex still your spouse a certain area (sect) of those churches?

Like I said above...if you marry someone that does not believe you are just asking for problems. Yes one could change in the course of the marriage, but if you go in knowing your significant other does not believe, problem.

 

[Foxmeister]

I know someone who was married to an abusive husband. He used to beat her often. Finally, she left him and divorced him. Several years later, she went to remarry; but the Baptist preacher where she attended church refused to marry them. He said she would be committing adultery. She explained to him why she left and divorced him. He said it made no difference because in the eyes of God she was still married to her first husband. Needless to say, she never stepped into that church again.

I've had discussions with several ministers who have said the same thing.

 

[LisaC]

Our preacher has talked about abuse and has clearly said that if anyone is in an abusive relationship, they should get out. As for marrying couples who have been previously divorced, I just don't know if he does or not, but only because I haven't been to a ceremony that he has performed; I do know that he requires all couples to go through pre-marital counseling before he will marry them and that he will not marry a couple that chooses to live together before marriage.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I know someone who was married to an abusive husband. He used to beat her often. Finally, she left him and divorced him. Several years later, she went to remarry; but the Baptist preacher where she attended church refused to marry them. He said she would be committing adultery. She explained to him why she left and divorced him. He said it made no difference because in the eyes of God she was still married to her first husband. Needless to say, she never stepped into that church again.

I've had discussions with several ministers who have said the same thing.

I have 5 friends in my closer circle of friends that I am posing this question to. They represent 3 different denominations. (none mine. LOL) I find this fascinating that someone of the cloth would allow/condone the body that God has given to someone in their congregation to be abused. (Which I am getting the allow/condone from the fact they are not allowing a remarriage after divorce. Saying they are sinning.)

Does the "saving" or "rebirth" or whatever phrase they use not make them cleansed from their sins? (divorce of an abuser) If it does why do they not have an avenue to go for something similar/like the annulment? (and I am talking about the beating/abuse divorce reason.)

 

[ShoeDiva]

Our preacher has talked about abuse and has clearly said that if anyone is in an abusive relationship, they should get out. As for marrying couples who have been previously divorced, I just don't know if he does or not, but only because I haven't been to a ceremony that he has performed; I do know that he requires all couples to go through pre-marital counseling before he will marry them and that he will not marry a couple that chooses to live together before marriage.

:thumbsup

 

[Foxmeister]

I know someone who was married to an abusive husband. He used to beat her often. Finally, she left him and divorced him. Several years later, she went to remarry; but the Baptist preacher where she attended church refused to marry them. He said she would be committing adultery. She explained to him why she left and divorced him. He said it made no difference because in the eyes of God she was still married to her first husband. Needless to say, she never stepped into that church again.

I've had discussions with several ministers who have said the same thing.

I have 5 friends in my closer circle of friends that I am posing this question to. They represent 3 different denominations. (none mine. LOL) I find this fascinating that someone of the cloth would allow/condone the body that God has given to someone in their congregation to be abused. (Which I am getting the allow/condone from the fact they are not allowing a remarriage after divorce. Saying they are sinning.)

Does the "saving" or "rebirth" or whatever phrase they use not make them cleansed from their sins? (divorce of an abuser) If it does why do they not have an avenue to go for something similar/like the annulment? (and I am talking about the beating/abuse divorce reason.)

Grounds for annulments vary from state to state. In GA grounds for an annulment are:

• The two spouses are related
  At least one person in the marriage did not have the mental ability to enter into the marriage.
  One spouse was forced into the marriage.
  One party was fraudulently misled into the marriage.
  One party was already married to another individual when entering into the marriage.

Abuse is grounds for divorce in GA, but not an annulment. Does the Catholic church recognize an annulment granted outside the church?

 

[ShoeDiva]

I know someone who was married to an abusive husband. He used to beat her often. Finally, she left him and divorced him. Several years later, she went to remarry; but the Baptist preacher where she attended church refused to marry them. He said she would be committing adultery. She explained to him why she left and divorced him. He said it made no difference because in the eyes of God she was still married to her first husband. Needless to say, she never stepped into that church again.

I've had discussions with several ministers who have said the same thing.

I have 5 friends in my closer circle of friends that I am posing this question to. They represent 3 different denominations. (none mine. LOL) I find this fascinating that someone of the cloth would allow/condone the body that God has given to someone in their congregation to be abused. (Which I am getting the allow/condone from the fact they are not allowing a remarriage after divorce. Saying they are sinning.)

Does the "saving" or "rebirth" or whatever phrase they use not make them cleansed from their sins? (divorce of an abuser) If it does why do they not have an avenue to go for something similar/like the annulment? (and I am talking about the beating/abuse divorce reason.)

Grounds for annulments vary from state to state. In GA grounds for an annulment are:

• The two spouses are related
  At least one person in the marriage did not have the mental ability to enter into the marriage.
  One spouse was forced into the marriage.
  One party was fraudulently misled into the marriage.
  One party was already married to another individual when entering into the marriage.

Abuse is grounds for divorce in GA, but not an annulment. Does the Catholic church recognize an annulment granted outside the church?

Take the civil part out. (whether divorced or annulled.) So my question is (from above) Does the "saving" or "rebirth" or whatever phrase they use not make them cleansed from their sins? (divorce of an abuser) If it does why do they not have an avenue to go for something similar/like the annulment? (and I am talking about the beating/abuse divorce reason.)
To answer your question you would still have to get an annulment from the church. (Or you can get the annulment from the church and go get a divorce. You have options if you want to be a part of the church and marry there (again.)

 

[LisaC]

Grounds for annulments vary from state to state. In GA grounds for an annulment are:

• The two spouses are related At least one person in the marriage did not have the mental ability to enter into the marriage.
  One spouse was forced into the marriage.
  One party was fraudulently misled into the marriage.
  One party was already married to another individual when entering into the marriage.

I doubt that one applies in Alabama.... I'm just saying...

 

[ShoeDiva]

Grounds for annulments vary from state to state. In GA grounds for an annulment are:

• The two spouses are related At least one person in the marriage did not have the mental ability to enter into the marriage.
  One spouse was forced into the marriage.
  One party was fraudulently misled into the marriage.
  One party was already married to another individual when entering into the marriage.

I doubt that one applies in Alabama.... I'm just saying...

:snick_bunny

 

[Madea]

I know someone who was married to an abusive husband. He used to beat her often. Finally, she left him and divorced him. Several years later, she went to remarry; but the Baptist preacher where she attended church refused to marry them. He said she would be committing adultery. She explained to him why she left and divorced him. He said it made no difference because in the eyes of God she was still married to her first husband. Needless to say, she never stepped into that church again.

I've had discussions with several ministers who have said the same thing.

I have 5 friends in my closer circle of friends that I am posing this question to. They represent 3 different denominations. (none mine. LOL) I find this fascinating that someone of the cloth would allow/condone the body that God has given to someone in their congregation to be abused. (Which I am getting the allow/condone from the fact they are not allowing a remarriage after divorce. Saying they are sinning.)

Does the "saving" or "rebirth" or whatever phrase they use not make them cleansed from their sins? (divorce of an abuser) If it does why do they not have an avenue to go for something similar/like the annulment? (and I am talking about the beating/abuse divorce reason.)

Grounds for annulments vary from state to state. In GA grounds for an annulment are:

• The two spouses are related
  At least one person in the marriage did not have the mental ability to enter into the marriage.
  One spouse was forced into the marriage.
  One party was fraudulently misled into the marriage.
  One party was already married to another individual when entering into the marriage.

Abuse is grounds for divorce in GA, but not an annulment. Does the Catholic church recognize an annulment granted outside the church?

Those relate solely to the "contract" of marriage from the state and not to the religious aspects of marriage.

 

[Genevieve]

I know someone who was married to an abusive husband. He used to beat her often. Finally, she left him and divorced him. Several years later, she went to remarry; but the Baptist preacher where she attended church refused to marry them. He said she would be committing adultery. She explained to him why she left and divorced him. He said it made no difference because in the eyes of God she was still married to her first husband. Needless to say, she never stepped into that church again.

I've had discussions with several ministers who have said the same thing.

I have 5 friends in my closer circle of friends that I am posing this question to. They represent 3 different denominations. (none mine. LOL) I find this fascinating that someone of the cloth would allow/condone the body that God has given to someone in their congregation to be abused. (Which I am getting the allow/condone from the fact they are not allowing a remarriage after divorce. Saying they are sinning.)

Does the "saving" or "rebirth" or whatever phrase they use not make them cleansed from their sins? (divorce of an abuser) If it does why do they not have an avenue to go for something similar/like the annulment? (and I am talking about the beating/abuse divorce reason.)

Grounds for annulments vary from state to state. In GA grounds for an annulment are:

• The two spouses are related
  At least one person in the marriage did not have the mental ability to enter into the marriage.
  One spouse was forced into the marriage.
  One party was fraudulently misled into the marriage.
  One party was already married to another individual when entering into the marriage.

Abuse is grounds for divorce in GA, but not an annulment. Does the Catholic church recognize an annulment granted outside the church?

I know someone who was married to an abusive husband. He used to beat her often. Finally, she left him and divorced him. Several years later, she went to remarry; but the Baptist preacher where she attended church refused to marry them. He said she would be committing adultery. She explained to him why she left and divorced him. He said it made no difference because in the eyes of God she was still married to her first husband. Needless to say, she never stepped into that church again.

I've had discussions with several ministers who have said the same thing.

I have 5 friends in my closer circle of friends that I am posing this question to. They represent 3 different denominations. (none mine. LOL) I find this fascinating that someone of the cloth would allow/condone the body that God has given to someone in their congregation to be abused. (Which I am getting the allow/condone from the fact they are not allowing a remarriage after divorce. Saying they are sinning.)

Does the "saving" or "rebirth" or whatever phrase they use not make them cleansed from their sins? (divorce of an abuser) If it does why do they not have an avenue to go for something similar/like the annulment? (and I am talking about the beating/abuse divorce reason.)

Grounds for annulments vary from state to state. In GA grounds for an annulment are:

• The two spouses are related
  At least one person in the marriage did not have the mental ability to enter into the marriage.
  One spouse was forced into the marriage.
  One party was fraudulently misled into the marriage.
  One party was already married to another individual when entering into the marriage.

Abuse is grounds for divorce in GA, but not an annulment. Does the Catholic church recognize an annulment granted outside the church?

I believe the Church would have to grant the annulment. An annulment from the Church would mean that the sacrament never took place.

 

[Foxmeister]

I know someone who was married to an abusive husband. He used to beat her often. Finally, she left him and divorced him. Several years later, she went to remarry; but the Baptist preacher where she attended church refused to marry them. He said she would be committing adultery. She explained to him why she left and divorced him. He said it made no difference because in the eyes of God she was still married to her first husband. Needless to say, she never stepped into that church again.

I've had discussions with several ministers who have said the same thing.

I have 5 friends in my closer circle of friends that I am posing this question to. They represent 3 different denominations. (none mine. LOL) I find this fascinating that someone of the cloth would allow/condone the body that God has given to someone in their congregation to be abused. (Which I am getting the allow/condone from the fact they are not allowing a remarriage after divorce. Saying they are sinning.)

Does the "saving" or "rebirth" or whatever phrase they use not make them cleansed from their sins? (divorce of an abuser) If it does why do they not have an avenue to go for something similar/like the annulment? (and I am talking about the beating/abuse divorce reason.)

Grounds for annulments vary from state to state. In GA grounds for an annulment are:

• The two spouses are related
  At least one person in the marriage did not have the mental ability to enter into the marriage.
  One spouse was forced into the marriage.
  One party was fraudulently misled into the marriage.
  One party was already married to another individual when entering into the marriage.

Abuse is grounds for divorce in GA, but not an annulment. Does the Catholic church recognize an annulment granted outside the church?

Those relate solely to the "contract" of marriage from the state and not to the religious aspects of marriage.

Now the question is, what churches grant annulments? From my understanding, only the Catholic church does. Now we're back to some Baptist and Pentecostal preachers refusing to marry someone because they are divorced.

Some on this board are divorced and remarried. How would you feel if your pastor came out and said you and your wife were committing adultery?

 

[Madea]

I know some Baptist preachers who won't marry couples when either have been married before. And, some that won't marry in the church, but would marry in an alternate location. How would I feel in that situation? I don't know, I'm not there. In my situation, I simply respect their beliefs and know in my heart that God has the ability to forgive anyone who asks.

 

[Genevieve]

I know someone who was married to an abusive husband. He used to beat her often. Finally, she left him and divorced him. Several years later, she went to remarry; but the Baptist preacher where she attended church refused to marry them. He said she would be committing adultery. She explained to him why she left and divorced him. He said it made no difference because in the eyes of God she was still married to her first husband. Needless to say, she never stepped into that church again.

I've had discussions with several ministers who have said the same thing.

I have 5 friends in my closer circle of friends that I am posing this question to. They represent 3 different denominations. (none mine. LOL) I find this fascinating that someone of the cloth would allow/condone the body that God has given to someone in their congregation to be abused. (Which I am getting the allow/condone from the fact they are not allowing a remarriage after divorce. Saying they are sinning.)

Does the "saving" or "rebirth" or whatever phrase they use not make them cleansed from their sins? (divorce of an abuser) If it does why do they not have an avenue to go for something similar/like the annulment? (and I am talking about the beating/abuse divorce reason.)

Grounds for annulments vary from state to state. In GA grounds for an annulment are:

• The two spouses are related
  At least one person in the marriage did not have the mental ability to enter into the marriage.
  One spouse was forced into the marriage.
  One party was fraudulently misled into the marriage.
  One party was already married to another individual when entering into the marriage.

Abuse is grounds for divorce in GA, but not an annulment. Does the Catholic church recognize an annulment granted outside the church?

Those relate solely to the "contract" of marriage from the state and not to the religious aspects of marriage.

Now the question is, what churches grant annulments? From my understanding, only the Catholic church does. Now we're back to some Baptist and Pentecostal preachers refusing to marry someone because they are divorced.

Some on this board are divorced and remarried. How would you feel if your pastor came out and said you and your wife were committing adultery?

I was just reading the Catechism about marriage laws because of a situation in my extended family, but was touched by what I read about Catholics in this situation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
1650 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery"160 the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.

1651 Toward Christians who live in this situation, and who often keep the faith and desire to bring up their children in a Christian manner, priests and the whole community must manifest an attentive solicitude, so that they do not consider themselves separated from the Church, in whose life they can and must participate as baptized persons:

They should be encouraged to listen to the Word of God, to attend the Sacrifice of the Mass, to persevere in prayer, to contribute to works of charity and to community efforts for justice, to bring up their children in the Christian faith, to cultivate the spirit and practice of penance and thus implore, day by day, God's grace.161
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I love how it tells the community to be attentive to these people, so that they do not consider themselves separated from the Church. I feel that a person in this situation who bears his burdens with prayer and love will receive many graces from God.

 

[Foxmeister]

I'm not a Catholic, but I do have quite a few Catholic friends. This was many years ago, so I have no idea if it still applies today. After she and her husband divorced, she was not allowed to take communion in the church until the church annuled her marriage. She said the costs alone to have the church annul her marriage was far more than she could afford and it could take several years.

 

[Genevieve]

I'm not a Catholic, but I do have quite a few Catholic friends. This was many years ago, so I have no idea if it still applies today. After she and her husband divorced, she was not allowed to take communion in the church until the church annuled her marriage. She said the costs alone to have the church annul her marriage was far more than she could afford and it could take several years.

If she only divorced and did not remarry, she should have been able to receive the Holy Eucharist. This is from EWTN, which is a solid source of info on all things Catholic:

"...By itself civil divorce is not an obstacle to Communion. As a civil action all it does is settle the civil legal effects of marriage (distribution of property, custody of children etc.)..."

The whole article: http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/communion_of_divorced_and_remarr.htm