It\'s been awhile since we talked about this.

The quick and dirty fact about this boils down to one simple thing...

The color of the two participants is the only reason any of us ever heard of this incident.

When down in Atlanta this very week, there are two hoodlums being held for beating another of their own race to death in a reported gang initiation, with the possible motive that the victim was gay. I've been watching the national news and I ain't seen squat about it.
 
deewee said:
The whole thing was unnecessary. Zimmerman did what he was supposed to do, by calling 911. Let the cops be the cops. His first mistake was trying to follow Travon. I'm not saying Travon is innocent, but the whole thing could have been avoided. They are both at fault for escalating the situation, and someone died. Whether it was self defense, or not, it could have been avoided.
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In hindsight, that's easy to say. If Zimmerman didn't have a confrontation with Martin and the cops got there a couple minutes earlier and arrested Martin for something, the cops may have patted Zimmerman on the back for being a good watchman. The outcome shouldn't necessarily override the intentions. Had Martin been breaking into houses in that neighborhood and Zimmerman's actions finally contributed to capturing this guy, then everyone would be praising him. Since Martin chose a different course of action..........well you know the outcome.
 
Blazing Saddles said:
deewee said:
The whole thing was unnecessary. Zimmerman did what he was supposed to do, by calling 911. Let the cops be the cops. His first mistake was trying to follow Travon. I'm not saying Travon is innocent, but the whole thing could have been avoided. They are both at fault for escalating the situation, and someone died. Whether it was self defense, or not, it could have been avoided.
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In hindsight, that's easy to say. If Zimmerman didn't have a confrontation with Martin and the cops got there a couple minutes earlier and arrested Martin for something, the cops may have patted Zimmerman on the back for being a good watchman. The outcome shouldn't necessarily override the intentions. Had Martin been breaking into houses in that neighborhood and Zimmerman's actions finally contributed to capturing this guy, then everyone would be praising him. Since Martin chose a different course of action..........well you know the outcome.
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True BUT I still think that 99% of the time, civilians should NOT attempt to take anything into their own hands. I still believe they are both at fault though.
 
It's a tragedy for all involved, we'll never know exactly what happened. One thing is for sure, one life ended and others forever changed because of decisions made that night. That being said, I'll play devil's advocate here and take a different position. Putting aside the fact that it was a gated community, unless the kid was caught red handed actually breaking the law, what exactly did he do wrong? How many of our kids have been out late at night, walking places they shouldn't and looking "suspicious" because they're youth. Better yet, how many of us did something similar when we were young and dumb. Me thinks there was some excessive force in play here, not necessarily intentional, just excessive, more than likely from panic and adrenaline. The last time I checked this is still America, home of the free and the brave. The kid was free to walk the streets and brave enough to face the unknown. He paid the price for that decision though.
 
J-man said:
It's a tragedy for all involved, we'll never know exactly what happened. One thing is for sure, one life ended and others forever changed because of decisions made that night. That being said, I'll play devil's advocate here and take a different position. Putting aside the fact that it was a gated community, unless the kid was caught red handed actually breaking the law, what exactly did he do wrong? How many of our kids have been out late at night, walking places they shouldn't and looking "suspicious" because they're youth. Better yet, how many of us did something similar when we were young and dumb. Me thinks there was some excessive force in play here, not necessarily intentional, just excessive, more than likely from panic and adrenaline. The last time I checked this is still America, home of the free and the brave. The kid was free to walk the streets and brave enough to face the unknown. He paid the price for that decision though.
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This is part of what I'm thinking, but it's on both sides. Zimmerman had a gun and was on "patrol" for the neighborhood watch. He had a gun so he felt a little bullet proof. Trayvon might have felt the need to get a littl gangsta and show his girlfriend how "tough" he was...
 
J-man said:
... unless the kid was caught red handed actually breaking the law, what exactly did he do wrong? How many of our kids have been out late at night, walking places they shouldn't and looking "suspicious" because they're youth. Better yet, how many of us did something similar when we were young and dumb. Me thinks there was some excessive force in play here, not necessarily intentional, just excessive, more than likely from panic and adrenaline. The last time I checked this is still America, home of the free and the brave. The kid was free to walk the streets and brave enough to face the unknown. He paid the price for that decision though.
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Did anyone say that he did anything wrong prior to whatever went down after they were in direct contact? No, I don't believe so. He and his actions were suspicious, did draw attention, and he was being checked out.

Look ... if you're in a high crime area, are unfamiliar to other residents, and acting in a suspicious or odd manner you're very likely going to be checked out. And that's what we as a society have demanded and expect.
 
Just my opinion, but if you know you live in a high crime area....move. There's a big difference in "checking out" unfamiliar people and someone losing their life over it. The kid was just that...a kid. Kids do what kids do...make bad decisions and do dumb things. Z notified the authorities and fulfilled his obligation to his neighborhood. Sad that a family lost their kid over it. Also sad that Z will be relentlessly targeting for the events of that night. I'm not defending or accusing either party, just stating that it's not illegal to walk through a neighborhood. The situation obviously wasn't handled properly and got out of hand.
 
But, what will never come out in court, and may not have any relevance, is that Martin wasn't just a kid, he was (by all accounts) a troubled kid. That, I would imagine, played a huge role in how he reacted to Zimmerman. Does that justify him being dead? No. But, I think in this conversation, it's worth noting.
 
J-man said:
Just my opinion, but if you know you live in a high crime area....move. There's a big difference in "checking out" unfamiliar people and someone losing their life over it. The kid was just that...a kid. Kids do what kids do...make bad decisions and do dumb things. Z notified the authorities and fulfilled his obligation to his neighborhood. Sad that a family lost their kid over it. Also sad that Z will be relentlessly targeting for the events of that night. I'm not defending or accusing either party, just stating that it's not illegal to walk through a neighborhood. The situation obviously wasn't handled properly and got out of hand.
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Where did anyone say he did anything illegal?

And nice idea ... run away and give up your home because of a recent crime spree. Certainly communities shouldn't stand up to crime, develop neighborhood watches, try to save their neighborhood. Nevermind that not everyone has a lot of options when it comes to moving.
 
Having grown up in the Chicago area, in an area that wasn't the best, I can honestly say Zimmerman following Martin to see what he was doing is not unusual, especially for a neighborhood watch person. Let me just ask this, what do you think the outcome would have been if Zimmerman didn't have a gun???
 
Let me just say for the record, when the report first came out I supported Z in his zeal to protect his neighborhood. I also thought the whole race thing just threw gasoline on the flame and I personally tuned out for that reason. Recently I've had other conversations regarding where it stands at the moment and I think we can all agree that if it could be done over again that things would be handled differently. I'm only pointing out that whether he was a troubled kid or not, nothing that has been reported justifies the end result. They found no weapon on the boy, they found no loot nearby, nobody reported a recent break-in which occurred that night, and to many people's surprise they found no drugs or drug related items. I did hear they found a bag of skittles on him but I could be wrong. I'm just pointing out that it could have happened to any kid, even ours. Many teenage boys I know would probably have reacted similarly defensive when approached by a neighborhood watch "guard." As I said before, we will never know what really happened. I'm just contributing to the conversation but since I'm a lone wolf here I'll just agree with everyone to keep the peace. I did nothing illegal either but since I'm relatively new to this neighborhood and still unfamiliar to some, I don't want to get shot.
 
Don't jump on anybody that's questioning you, breaking their nose and banging their head onto the ground repeatedly and you'll probably be ok. You should know lots of folks here are armed. But enough of all that ... lets go share some tea and skittles. :)
 
I love skittles, I share them with our grandson when we see him. It's sorta our thing.
 
A million or so years ago my brother and his friends used to chew skittles them spit colored "art" on the sidewalk. :sick
 
That's a great idea, maybe I'll teach that to our grandson. I'm sure the Queen would just love that.
 
J-man said:
I did nothing illegal either but since I'm relatively new to this neighborhood and still unfamiliar to some, I don't want to get shot.
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I wear hoodies. 8) AND I let my kids wear them.
 
I might be wrong, but wasn't the first illegal act in this incident performed by Travon on Zimmerman when he assaulted him? Assault always justifies the use of deadly force is you think your life is in danger.
 
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