Should a student be able to wear a shirt that says....

[newsjunky]

Last I heard we still have free speech in this country... 8)

(With the exception of explicit pornography or profanity,
I support the right of a students to express themselves.)

School is not the place for these kind of battles. They are their to be educated and these kinds of things get in the way of that. Schools should have the right to set dress codes and doing so would be in the best interest of education.

Freedom of speech has always had it's limitations. Ex: You have free speech, but that ends when it comes to slandering someone.

And again, these are minor children. They need rules and boundaries.

:thumbsup

 

[ShoeDiva]

This has nothing to do with sex. Sexuality, maybe. But not sex. Contrary to popular belief gay and sex are not synonymous. This young man is promoting the idea that Jesus wouldn't judge, no matter what. I say let him wear the shirt and face the big boy consequences of doing so.

:thumbsup

My strong libertarian streak says let him wear it. Esp. since he's a high schooler. I think a lot more hullabaloo results in people banning things like this than if they'd just allow it to continue.

:thumbsup




I think one thing that some might be missing is that he wants to wear it on a specific day for a specific event. This is not going to create more of a disturbance then the "event" already does. (Now I will say Lisa did say at his high school no one participates. Here, many, many do, including parents. I equate this event to the same as pajama day, 80's day, college day, etc. they are all out of the norm with different clothes and do create a different environment for that day.) In the situation of an event, which this is, why shouldn't clothes that fit it be worn? Just throwing that out there. (Obviously the courts agree. )

 

[BeatBoxinGranny47]

I got about 1 minute into the video and came to the conclusion that he should be able to wear it. He is wearing it on an anti bully day. Who gets bullied more at High School? Jocks or feminine guys? I dont even like the fact that people are weak minded and vagenough to get bullied but he has a point with his shirt. His shirt essentially says "Jesus is not afraid of homo's, why are y'all?". The answer is because most of y'all are closet queers and it makes you feel better to make them feel less than human. I have not seen any articles banning a Jimi Hendrix, Michael Vick, Kurt Cobain or an Amy Winehouse shirt. I would much rather my son grow up to be a proud gay than kill himself with drugs and alcohol at the age of 27 or start a dog fighting ring. Now, should kids be able to wear a shirt that says "I love the penis/vag?". No. Just suck it up and quit being whiny little Mama's boys.

 

[BeatBoxinGranny47]

This has nothing to do with sex. Sexuality, maybe. But not sex. Contrary to popular belief gay and sex are not synonymous. This young man is promoting the idea that Jesus wouldn't judge, no matter what. I say let him wear the shirt and face the big boy consequences of doing so.

:thumbsup

My strong libertarian streak says let him wear it. Esp. since he's a high schooler. I think a lot more hullabaloo results in people banning things like this than if they'd just allow it to continue.

:thumbsup




I think one thing that some might be missing is that he wants to wear it on a specific day for a specific event. This is not going to create more of a disturbance then the "event" already does. (Now I will say Lisa did say at his high school no one participates. Here, many, many do, including parents. I equate this event to the same as pajama day, 80's day, college day, etc. they are all out of the norm with different clothes and do create a different environment for that day.) In the situation of an event, which this is, why shouldn't clothes that fit it be worn? Just throwing that out there. (Obviously the courts agree. )

DAMMIT SD!!!!!! You trying to steal my thunder, woman?!?!?!?!? I type too slow.

 

[Guard Dad]

I also have a lot of Libertarian in me. But again, we're talking about children, and these are not civil rights issues. It's about what is best for children in an educational environment.

And while I understand Mark's point, I don't think you can totally separate sex from sexuality. Sexuality is based on sexual preferences. Even if you're not having sex, your sexuality is based on which gender your attraction or desires are for. So one is really just varying progressions of the other. (did I write that?)

 

[ShoeDiva]

This has nothing to do with sex. Sexuality, maybe. But not sex. Contrary to popular belief gay and sex are not synonymous. This young man is promoting the idea that Jesus wouldn't judge, no matter what. I say let him wear the shirt and face the big boy consequences of doing so.

:thumbsup

My strong libertarian streak says let him wear it. Esp. since he's a high schooler. I think a lot more hullabaloo results in people banning things like this than if they'd just allow it to continue.

:thumbsup




I think one thing that some might be missing is that he wants to wear it on a specific day for a specific event. This is not going to create more of a disturbance then the "event" already does. (Now I will say Lisa did say at his high school no one participates. Here, many, many do, including parents. I equate this event to the same as pajama day, 80's day, college day, etc. they are all out of the norm with different clothes and do create a different environment for that day.) In the situation of an event, which this is, why shouldn't clothes that fit it be worn? Just throwing that out there. (Obviously the courts agree. )

DAMMIT SD!!!!!! You trying to steal my thunder, woman?!?!?!?!? I type too slow.

) I wasn't going to mention you were slow.

 

[BeatBoxinGranny47]

This has nothing to do with sex. Sexuality, maybe. But not sex. Contrary to popular belief gay and sex are not synonymous. This young man is promoting the idea that Jesus wouldn't judge, no matter what. I say let him wear the shirt and face the big boy consequences of doing so.

:thumbsup

My strong libertarian streak says let him wear it. Esp. since he's a high schooler. I think a lot more hullabaloo results in people banning things like this than if they'd just allow it to continue.

:thumbsup




I think one thing that some might be missing is that he wants to wear it on a specific day for a specific event. This is not going to create more of a disturbance then the "event" already does. (Now I will say Lisa did say at his high school no one participates. Here, many, many do, including parents. I equate this event to the same as pajama day, 80's day, college day, etc. they are all out of the norm with different clothes and do create a different environment for that day.) In the situation of an event, which this is, why shouldn't clothes that fit it be worn? Just throwing that out there. (Obviously the courts agree. )

DAMMIT SD!!!!!! You trying to steal my thunder, woman?!?!?!?!? I type too slow.

) I wasn't going to mention you were slow.

I ILKE TURTLES..........AND THE QUEERS.

 

[mei lan]

This has nothing to do with sex. Sexuality, maybe. But not sex. Contrary to popular belief gay and sex are not synonymous. This young man is promoting the idea that Jesus wouldn't judge, no matter what. I say let him wear the shirt and face the big boy consequences of doing so.

:thumbsup

My strong libertarian streak says let him wear it. Esp. since he's a high schooler. I think a lot more hullabaloo results in people banning things like this than if they'd just allow it to continue.

:thumbsup




I think one thing that some might be missing is that he wants to wear it on a specific day for a specific event. This is not going to create more of a disturbance then the "event" already does. (Now I will say Lisa did say at his high school no one participates. Here, many, many do, including parents. I equate this event to the same as pajama day, 80's day, college day, etc. they are all out of the norm with different clothes and do create a different environment for that day.) In the situation of an event, which this is, why shouldn't clothes that fit it be worn? Just throwing that out there. (Obviously the courts agree. )

DAMMIT SD!!!!!! You trying to steal my thunder, woman?!?!?!?!? I type too slow.

) I wasn't going to mention you were slow.

I ILKE TURTLES..........AND THE QUEERS.

But what about queer turtles? Or straight hares? Do you like them?

 

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

Let him wear it, as long as the shirt is tasteful. It does not express hate and, as far as I can see, there is nothing explicitly sexual on it. My classroom today had more "sexual" content than that shirt. (In Biology, I'm teaching genetics, so I was explaining how meiosis forms sex cells, and I specifically referenced sperm and egg. I also told the kids how to remember the symbol for male.)

Yes, the shirt does reference an issue that is sexual in nature, but not to a level that is outside the bounds of what is accepted in school. I just photographed couples at my own high school's prom. Yes, male and female couples (it's rural North Dakota), but we are certainly socializing them toward marriage and the emotional and physical blessings that entails. It's as sexual as the shirt, though more acceptable to those like me who have conservative views on the issue of sexuality.

Of course, I can imagine myself as a classroom teacher. If a student wore this shirt to school, I would know that I would have to be hyper-vigilant for the bullying or other comments that certain elements of my classes would attempt. It would be a lot easier to ban anything controversial, but that would hardly prepare my students for the real world which is full of people with sincerely held beliefs that are totally contrary to their own. Our students need to learn to politely disagree.

Homosexuality is related to sex, but so are a teacher's photographs of his children or a teachers announcement of marriage. Did you know that at one time teachers were not allowed to marry? be pregnant? These things sound silly, but I know women who are still alive who had to leave teaching because they met the man they loved.

 

[Foxmeister]

I'm all for dress codes in our schools. I'd establish a policy that all shirts cannot contain slogans of religious, sexual or political preferences as those often cause discourse. I'd personally like to see a dress code that requires males and females to wear collared shirts, slacks and shoes. I don't think sandals or flip-flops are appropriate footwear for school or the work place.

 

[mei lan]

I don't think sandals or flip-flops are appropriate footwear for school or the work place.

Well, crap. Cross me off your interview list.

 

[mei lan]

It would be a lot easier to ban anything controversial, but that would hardly prepare my students for the real world which is full of people with sincerely held beliefs that are totally contrary to their own. Our students need to learn to politely disagree.

WELL SAID, Waski! I completely agree. Teenagers will be adults all too quickly (in age, not necessarily in maturity), and if they are not allowed to learn along the way, they will be in great trouble. This is a big thing with me, preparing kids for the real world. SOOOOO many of society's problems would be solved by parents working to do that one thing.

 

[mei lan]

I'm all for dress codes in our schools. I'd establish a policy that all shirts cannot contain slogans of religious, sexual or political preferences as those often cause discourse.

Did you mean "discord"? I can't think you would be opposed to "discourse". I do see your point in this...I wouldn't want something that would cause major upheaval. Of course, that could all be monitored and managed by a common-sensical school administration, which is pretty rare these days.

 

[honeybunny]

Computer hiccup... 8)

 

[honeybunny]

Last I heard we still have free speech in this country... 8)

(With the exception of explicit pornography or profanity,
I support the right of a students to express themselves.)

School is not the place for these kind of battles. They are their to be educated and these kinds of things get in the way of that. Schools should have the right to set dress codes and doing so would be in the best interest of education.

Freedom of speech has always had it's limitations. Ex: You have free speech, but that ends when it comes to slandering someone.

And again, these are minor children. They need rules and boundaries.

They are children, but they need to learn at early age that it's okay to express themselves within the confines of the law. According to the articles and the Complaint, the principal at the school couldn't seem to give the kid a consistent answer as to why he couldn't wear the shirt.

I like reading articles that challenge me. Honestly, my first reaction was that this was just another kid trying to get attention because he didn't get his way. But, the more I looked into the case, the kid has a valid point and I'm excited to see that he stood up for it. Kids need to know that the law works and that they're rights are protected just as much as ours are.

Which is why the schools need to have very strict dress codes that prohibit all clothing with pictures or sayings on them. That's the only way they can be consistent in enforcing the rules.

I am all for self-expression, but it's equally important to learn to respect the rules and to make good judgements in life. A child also needs to learn to respect the rights of others. Silly drama like this in schools interferes with those who want to receive an education in a conducive environment.

This was not a matter of self-expression, it was advancement of an agenda. Doesn't matter if the agenda is pro-gay, pro-hetero, pro or anti anything; the other kids shouldn't have to endure this in school.

I do not understand the argument that a tshirt
is somehow disruptive to anyone's education...

I went to a progressive high school (class of 89) with absolutely no dress code at all,
and other student's clothing choices never once affected by ability to study and learn.

My classmate in advanced English had a blue mohawk, many tattoos,
and a pierced nose ring that was connected by a chain to his earlobe.

Easily one of the most intelligent people I have ever met,
today he is vice president of a big deal software company

 

[Guard Dad]

Last I heard we still have free speech in this country... 8)

(With the exception of explicit pornography or profanity,
I support the right of a students to express themselves.)

School is not the place for these kind of battles. They are their to be educated and these kinds of things get in the way of that. Schools should have the right to set dress codes and doing so would be in the best interest of education.

Freedom of speech has always had it's limitations. Ex: You have free speech, but that ends when it comes to slandering someone.

And again, these are minor children. They need rules and boundaries.

They are children, but they need to learn at early age that it's okay to express themselves within the confines of the law. According to the articles and the Complaint, the principal at the school couldn't seem to give the kid a consistent answer as to why he couldn't wear the shirt.

I like reading articles that challenge me. Honestly, my first reaction was that this was just another kid trying to get attention because he didn't get his way. But, the more I looked into the case, the kid has a valid point and I'm excited to see that he stood up for it. Kids need to know that the law works and that they're rights are protected just as much as ours are.

Which is why the schools need to have very strict dress codes that prohibit all clothing with pictures or sayings on them. That's the only way they can be consistent in enforcing the rules.

I am all for self-expression, but it's equally important to learn to respect the rules and to make good judgements in life. A child also needs to learn to respect the rights of others. Silly drama like this in schools interferes with those who want to receive an education in a conducive environment.

This was not a matter of self-expression, it was advancement of an agenda. Doesn't matter if the agenda is pro-gay, pro-hetero, pro or anti anything; the other kids shouldn't have to endure this in school.

I do not understand the argument that a tshirt
is somehow disruptive to anyone's education...

I went to a progressive high school (class of 89) with absolutely no dress code at all,
and other student's clothing choices never once affected by ability to study and learn.

My classmate in advanced English had a blue mohawk, many tattoos,
and a pierced nose ring that was connected by a chain to his earlobe.

Easily one of the most intelligent people I have ever met,
today he is vice president of a big deal software company

Apples and oranges. A T-shirt like that could generate controversy and even stir up arguments or fights. He wasn't wearing it for self expression or to make a fashion statement, he was wearing it to support an agenda or set of beliefs. And those particular beliefs can be volatile and divisive. Schools have enough problems without these kind of social battles going on.

Now...what about the precedent this sets? Will the next guy wear a shirt stating Jesus wasn't a racist or Jesus was OK with pedophilia (who says they have to be Biblically correct)?How about Jesus supports Barrack Obama?

Slippery slope, and reining it in gets harder with each time we allow something like this.

 

[LisaC]

I warned y'all that I was doing some more digging. Below is the school's dress code pulled directly from the student handbook:

A major component of the educational program at [the school] is to prepare students to become responsible workers and citizens by learning how to conduct themselves properly and in accordance with established standards. ...
While fashion changes, the reason for being in school does not. Students are in school to learn. Any fashion (dress, accessory, or hairstyle) that disrupts the educational process or presents a safety risk will not be permitted. Personal expression is permitted within these general guidelines.
Dress Code
Modesty and decency will continue to be stressed. Footwear is required for health and safety reasons. Clothing, including buttons and hats with obscene or questionable material on them (drug, alcohol, gang or sexual related) will not be permitted. Likewise, caps, bandanas, *hats, cut-off shirts, mini-skirts, sleeveless shirts, pajamas, slippers halter tops, crop tops, muscle shirts, total mesh shirts, tank tops are some examples of unacceptable clothing.(*hats must be placed in a student's locker upon arrival at school and cannot be carried around during the school day) Hoodies cannot be on in the building. Shirt length on the arms should be to the top of the arm connecting to the shoulder and midriffs must be covered at all times (including when arms are raised above the head). Skirts and shorts should reach at least mid-thigh and subject to judgment of school personnel and the principal. Holes in jeans are not allowed above mid-thigh. Students are not permitted to have facial piercings’. Hair color that distract students or brings attention to an individual is not permitted. Inappropriate dress will result in class removal, zeros in the class or classes missed, a parent conference or possible disciplinary action. The administration reserves the right to amend this policy.
If a student has selected a manner of appearance that is beyond mere freedom of expression and disrupts the educational process or presents risk to themselves or others, they may be removed from the educational setting.

 

[Guard Dad]

Seems like a very reasonable dress code.

And I would opine that the shirt in question violates it,

 

[wsstevenson]

I wonder what the response would be to a student wearing a t-shirt promoting a political campaign. I would say if we're interested in teaching them about the real world, we should let them live in it. Those kids know more about society than we have ever learned. They are the next leaders of the world. So caring about what they are doing at 17 doesn't really seem valid when the eventual end is caring which nursing home they will select for us. Thankfully I didn't contribute to the over crowded population of earth and my decisions will be made by me.

 

[LisaC]

Apples and oranges. A T-shirt like that could generate controversy and even stir up arguments or fights. He wasn't wearing it for self expression or to make a fashion statement, he was wearing it to support an agenda or set of beliefs. And those particular beliefs can be volatile and divisive. Schools have enough problems without these kind of social battles going on.

Now...what about the precedent this sets? Will the next guy wear a shirt stating Jesus wasn't a racist or Jesus was OK with pedophilia (who says they have to be Biblically correct)?How about Jesus supports Barrack Obama?

Slippery slope, and reining it in gets harder with each time we allow something like this.

See, here's where the law sides with the kid - you cannot ban something because it "might" be volatile. I'm gonna throw some case law at you so you can see where the courts have ruled on this subject:

First, in Nixon v. Northern Local Sch. Dist. Bd. of Ed., the court held that the wearing of a T-shirt bearing the messages “Homosexuality is a sin!,” “Islam is a lie!,” and “Abortion is murder!” “clearly constitutes expression under the First Amendment.” Those are obviously the complete opposite of what this kid was trying to say, but in this case, it was ruled that those shirts were appropriate First Amendment expressions. Does that make it right to wear them to school?

Also, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. Sch. Dist. that that schools can only restrict student speech that would “materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school.” The Court also cautioned that school officials’ fear of material and substantial interference must be based on something identifiable in the school setting because “undifferentiated fear or apprehension of disturbance is not enough to overcome the rights to freedom of expression.”

In Morse v. Frederick, a case where a school district was sued for disciplining a student for wearing a shirt that said "Bong Hits for Jesus," the U.S. Supreme Court also stated that a school’s right to restrict speech did not include the right to curtail any and all speech that someone might dem “offensive:”

"Petitioners urge us to adopt the broader rule that Frederick’s speech is proscribable because it is plainly “offensive” as that term is used in Fraser. We think that stretches Fraser too far; that case should not be read to encompass any speech that could fit under some definition of “offensive.” After all, much political and religious speech might be perceived as offensive to some. The concern here is not that Frederick’s speech was offensive, but that it was reasonably viewed as promoting illegal drug use."