We business people might not get our PPP

Boss 302 said:
Which is more important; money or lives? I'm going to take a guess and say you think the best approach to the virus would have been to just go with herd immunity. I guess that worked pretty well with the Spanish flu.
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The question of huge govt spending has nothing to do on which is more important (money vs lives) or what I think the best approach was. Regardless of either, the govt told businesses to shutdown and should now compensate them for that. The govt picked the winners ('essential businesses') and losers ('non-essential businesses'). Is it fair to all those businesses that are now shutdown due to no fault of their own?

And, no, at this point I don't think the best approach was just to go with herd immunity but I do think we overacted as a country (actually world).
 
After a month of self-quarantine and mandatory shutdown it’s time to resume life and its inherent risks. There is no dollar figure to equate for the loss of a life, however, eventually life for those remaining must go on. Obviously I support practicing safety procedures and self-monitorining, in no way do I condone irresponsible behavior.
 
We have worked straight through the crisis with just a few days exception. Granted there is about a 90% probability that I had the virus but life goes on (in my case it was like a mild flu). The bailout is BS. Nothing but politics from the get go. I trust a pissed off cottonmouth more than I do a politician/media regardless of their party affiliation. I think the whole social distancing/shelter in place reduced the spread significantly but I also think it was over hyped. I also think common freaking sense could do the same thing without the Gestapo tactics of government. I do however realize common sense is an endangered species. JMO.
 
Our service side tanked when all this hit. I paid my people for 40 all through it, based on the promise of the PPP coming. I could have put some of them on unemployment, but didn't, and now that's a lot of money that was spent.

Might have to put some on unemployment now though, at least if it doesn't pick up really soon.

See...that was the whole idea of the PPP, to keep people on payroll instead of unemployment. So now it seems the PPP was blown and there will be even more unemployment spent because the PPP went to the wrong places.
 
cptlo306 said:
The question of huge govt spending has nothing to do on which is more important (money vs lives) or what I think the best approach was. Regardless of either, the govt told businesses to shutdown and should now compensate them for that. The govt picked the winners ('essential businesses') and losers ('non-essential businesses'). Is it fair to all those businesses that are now shutdown due to no fault of their own?

And, no, at this point I don't think the best approach was just to go with herd immunity but I do think we overacted as a country (actually world).
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Over reacted how? If you recall, the WHO was first claiming there was absolutely no evidence the virus could be passed from human to human. What do you think many world leaders and medical professionals first thought when that was put out? Most likely this virus is only going to affect China. Not long after that, people start dying from it across the globe. "Holy crap the WHO was wrong! Now what?" Then next thing you know, this thing is spreading quickly; first in Iran where it was reported thousands were dying from it and then Italy. "Holy crap, now it's spreading too damn fast!" So what approach should have been taken?
 
Boss 302 said:
Over reacted how? If you recall, the WHO was first claiming there was absolutely no evidence the virus could be passed from human to human. What do you think many world leaders and medical professionals first thought when that was put out? Most likely this virus is only going to affect China. Not long after that, people start dying from it across the globe. "Holy crap the WHO was wrong! Now what?" Then next thing you know, this thing is spreading quickly; first in Iran where it was reported thousands were dying from it and then Italy. "Holy crap, now it's spreading too damn fast!" So what approach should have been taken?
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Focus on the most vulnerable instead of shutting down pretty much the entire country, limit large gatherings like sports events (or just have them without fans), emphasize social distancing and wearing masks, and do a better job of ramping up testing, There are some states that have implemented stupid orders like not being able to buy plant seeds in stores that people are allowed in to buy other stuff.

The virus is still here and will be here for quite a while. We can't keep the country under lockdown until a vaccine becomes available...IF one ever becomes available.

Here's an example of what this shutdown is doing all across the country:



And here's an article that attempts to measure the effectiveness of the 'stay at home' orders.


A lack of correlation between speed to shutdown and deaths implies we may have overestimated the need to shut down and underestimated other social distancing measures.
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CNN is reporting a new agreement for a bill to expand the program.

According to a section-by-section analysis of the bill obtained by CNN, the agreement includes:

-- $310 billion for the Paycheck Protection Program and small business loans, bringing the total authorized aid to $659 billion;
-- $60 billion for smaller lending facilities, including minority depository institutions, certified development companies and credit unions;
-- $10 billion for grants under the Emergency Economic Injury Disaster Loan program;
-- $50 billion for disaster recovery loans;
-- $2.1 billion for additional salaries and expenses for the Small Business Administration;
-- $75 billion for hospitals and health care providers to support for Covid-19 expenses and lost revenue from canceled elective surgeries and other procedures;
-- $25 billion for research to develop, validate, manufacture, purchase and administer Covid-19 tests, including $11 billion for states to expand lab capacity;
-- $6 million to cover Health and Human Services inspector general oversight.
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Interestingly, I got a call today rescheduling my surgery for mid May.
 
J-man said:
It’s also easy to armchair quarterback contradicting statements when one hasn’t lost any skin in the game and has no concern of losing their livelihood. One’s fear of contracting a virus doesn’t trump another’s fear of losing their business or livelihood...and vice versa.
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Everybody in this country has skin in the game - their lives. You think because I am fortunate to still be working. I'm having to deal with people who want to get closer than they should. Our 401k has taken over a $30K hit since this pandemic. You think that's having skin in the game?
 
Believe it or not I agree that we all have skin in the game, we just differ on the urgency of the crisis. Can you agree with me that I've said several times that those in a high risk categories and those fearful of contracting the virus should continue sheltering in place, and that otherwise it's time for people to put on their mask & gloves and get back to work because PPP, stimulus checks, and unemployment funds aren't going to pay for themselves or last forever.

This may be surprising but life hasn't changed much for me or my family. Fortunately we all continue to have jobs too and continue living a relatively quiet life style while practicing safe distancing procedures. Personally my investment account was down over 45% at its lowest but that's never been a priority for me, it's just a number. However, I'm very concerned for those who are less fortunate such as those who have lost their job, those who can't pay their mortgage and face losing their home and other assets, those who can't pay other bills or buy groceries. I'm concerned for retirees who rely on their life long investment nest-egg which has quickly diminished.

My position is that it's time to re-open society while practicing safe distancing procedures, other may disagree.
 
J-man said:
Believe it or not I agree that we all have skin in the game, we just differ on the urgency of the crisis. Can you agree with me that I've said several times that those in a high risk categories and those fearful of contracting the virus should continue sheltering in place, and that otherwise it's time for people to put on their mask & gloves and get back to work because PPP, stimulus checks, and unemployment funds aren't going to pay for themselves or last forever.

This may be surprising but life hasn't changed much for me or my family. Fortunately we all continue to have jobs too and continue living a relatively quiet life style while practicing safe distancing procedures. Personally my investment account was down over 45% at its lowest but that's never been a priority for me, it's just a number. However, I'm very concerned for those who are less fortunate such as those who have lost their job, those who can't pay their mortgage and face losing their home and other assets, those who can't pay other bills or buy groceries. I'm concerned for retirees who rely on their life long investment nest-egg which has quickly diminished.

My position is that it's time to re-open society while practicing safe distancing procedures, other may disagree.
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I think we can do this, at least I hope so. It all depends on how seriously people take social distancing. People are literally going hungry and about to be homeless. The idea that we can all just sit at home and just let the government print money for us is MMT horse hockey. My life savings won't be worth crap and neither will anyone else's.
 
lotstodo said:
I think we can do this, at least I hope so. It all depends on how seriously people take social distancing. People are literally going hungry and about to be homeless. The idea that we can all just sit at home and just let the government print money for us is MMT horse hockey. My life savings won't be worth crap and neither will anyone else's.
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The few times I have stopped at a store, I see far more people not following the social distancing guidelines than those who do. I swear most people are stupid as hell.
 
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