naturegirl
Rolling down the highway
I'm backing out of this thread but before I do I just want to say thank you to everyone who has served. :love
Freedom isn't free.
Freedom isn't free.
Purple Heart for PTSD?
- Thread starter gog8tors
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Foxmeister
Guest
unionmom said:I think it's cute that you presume to know me and my experiences and or exposures to those in the military. You also seem to have skipped right over where I acknowledge that PTSD needs to be recognized and these soldiers need to be taken care of. I never suggested or implied that the stress of military service is the same as paying the bills and it is clear you already have a chip on your shoulder on the subject since you went there with it. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you over my life experiences compared to yours, my family/friends and their experiences compared to yours. I do know that I personally have seen things that would screw a lot of people up for life but I'm fine (shut up GD) ) but I don't judge them for that. You go ahead and be mad at me. I'm ok with that. You go ahead and disagree with me. I'm ok with that. I still stand by my position. They deserve to be properly taken care of and, if so deemed, come up with an award for them. In my mind they do not qualify for Purple Heart.
As I said in my initial response, I served for 25 years and went to war four different times. I have firsthand experience in war. Do you?
Let's look at the history of the Purple Heart to understand more what the intent was for giving it. Originally during the Revolutionary War, it was called the Medal of Merit and was awarded only three times. It was never awarded again until WWI. In 1931, it was redesigned to look like it does today. In 1932, it was authorized to be awarded to WWI veterans who had received the Meritorious Service Citation Certificate.
During WWII, the Purple Heart was awarded for those receiving wounds in action from the enemy and for meritorious service. In 1985, Congress authorized the Purple Heart to be awarded to those wounded by friendly fire.
The whole intent of the Purple Heart is to award it to those wounded by the enemy. When it was initially implemented, they didn't even know what PTSD was back then. They called it "Shell Shocked" and "Battle Fatigue" back then. They thought it was something that was only temporary.
We know a lot more about PTSD now. Most people with PTSD will suffer from it the rest of their lives. I myself, think it's a very serious wound, because it is the result of enemy fire or action. The war veterans who suffer from PTSD will most likely suffer from it the rest of their lives. The only way to treat PTSD is with counseling and medications. There will be trigger mechanisms that will cause them to have flashbacks to the event and nightmares.
You said:
We all are made of flesh and bone and have blood running through our bodies, but physically we are not the same. Some people are overweight, some obese, some very muscular and some very thin. A bullet striking a very muscular person in the chest may not travel through the body as it would striking a thin person. It may enter the chest of a think person and then exit another part of the body, whereas in a muscular or obese person it may remain in the body, causing more or less damage.
A bullet striking a muscular person in the thigh may not leave any lifelong affect other than a scar, but could leave a thin person with a limp for the rest of their life.
The bottom line is, PTSD is the result of hostile enemy action leaving the person with a psychological disorder for the rest of their lives requiring medication and counseling. Military personnel with PTSD can also receive a medical discharge and disability pay just like many who are wounded physically.
What pissed me off about your post is how you appeared to downplay the seriousness of PTSD.
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BeatBoxinGranny47
Guest
I dont think they should recieve a Purple Heart. Should they get top notch help and compensation? Yes. Imagine if you were severly wounded in combat, lets say your vehicle hits an IED. You spend months in a hospital. Then, the Commandant visits you and awards you with your Purple Heart. Then you find out that you nearly died to earn your Purple Heart but the friggin chow hall cook in the 5ton 8 vehicles behind you gets the same damn award because he watched you get blown up. I for one would be pissed off. Have I been in a combat situation? No. Have I been in highly dangerous areas surrounded by terrorists? Yes. Have I been shot at? Numerous times. Have I had 500lb bombs and arty shells drop danger close and send shrapnel throughout my gun line? Yes. Have I seen a friendly Cobra get turned around at night and unload 20mm rounds at my platoon? Yes. Should I be awarded for these things? No. Also, you cant fake being wounded in combat, you can fake PTSD in order to recieve monetary compensation. You may be upset with me saying some people fake PTSD but not every military member is a stand up, honest citizen. I have seen it first hand.
gog8tors
Driving Instructor
I am truly not sure how I feel about this. To say I am conflicted would be almost an understatement. I do understand where the Veteran may be coming from. It wasn't that long ago that PTSD wasn't even recognized as a real combat related disorder. It is also a compensated service connected disability. It is rated in degrees. Even the guy in graves registration can get PTSD. I know someone who is a LE, that knows he is suffering, (Gulf War) but will not go in for the treatment, and diagnosis because he stated he would lose his job.
I know that there are guys who hesitate to fill out the paper work for a pistol because of their PTSD. I don't know if the PHM will make a difference in how the civilian population see our warriors or not. Damn Hollywood for exacerbating the problem.
Husband had a grenade that exploded in his foxhole. We didn't discover the shrapnel until years later when he had a dental x-ray. He remembers the indecent, but he didn't realize he had been hit. He thought it was his buddy's blood. Do I know that was when things really changed for him? No. I do know at this point it is very difficult to get a PHM
One thing I will ask y'all, please play nice. We are adults.
I know that there are guys who hesitate to fill out the paper work for a pistol because of their PTSD. I don't know if the PHM will make a difference in how the civilian population see our warriors or not. Damn Hollywood for exacerbating the problem.
Husband had a grenade that exploded in his foxhole. We didn't discover the shrapnel until years later when he had a dental x-ray. He remembers the indecent, but he didn't realize he had been hit. He thought it was his buddy's blood. Do I know that was when things really changed for him? No. I do know at this point it is very difficult to get a PHM
It's not as easy as one would think. Can it be faked? Yes. Is it as much as some think? No, I don't think so. You are right not every one is a stand up citizen. There is a change in the travel comp. Now they send you a check for your travel expense.
One thing I will ask y'all, please play nice. We are adults.
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Foxmeister
Guest
gog8tors said:
The CIB is the Combat Infantryman Badge and is awarded to an Army infantryman with the 11 or 18 series MOS. The CAB is the Combat Action Badge and is awarded to Army personnel who are not Infantry, but have been engaged by the enemy in hostile action or engaged the enemy in hostile action.
I read the article you linked. Some of the readers who responded to it on that site think there should be a separate award for those receiving PTSD. I have to disagree with that because it could cause a stigma for those who wear it. Think about this for a second; a lot of people really don't understand PTSD at all. Many believe someone who suffers from PTSD is "crazy" or a "mental case." Now imagine if there was a different medal and ribbon worn on the uniform that someone has PTSD. That person could be treated differently, but in an adverse way. People can be cruel and make comments that could be overheard by the person wearing such a ribbon or medal. I would also think that would be a violation of the HIPPA laws.
There would be no way I would wear a ribbon or medal on my uniform that would identify me with PTSD for the reasons I gave. Again, no I don't have PTSD; but I have several very close friends who do.
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Foxmeister
Guest
gog8tors said:
I'm not sure if the Purple Heart should be awarded to those with PTSD either, but I do seriously believe it's a lifelong wound a person who has it will suffer with. I think what this advocacy group's intent is with pushing for the Purple Heart to be awarded for PTSD is really to emphasize how serious PTSD really is. A guy can get wounded in the leg and have no lifelong ill effects from it, but PTSD is a different matter entirely.
I have a friend who was in Desert Storm. He was an MP working in a EPW camp near KKMC, Saudi Arabia. These camps were huge. He broke up a fight between two Iraqi prisoners. One went running away and Van started chasing him. The other Iraqi picked up a rock and threw it trying to hit the running Iraqi, but it hit Van in the back of the head. Van had to get six stitches in the head. He was awarded the Purple Heart because he received a wound inflicted by the enemy. He tried to refuse it, but they held a formation and awarded it to him anyway. He said he was never so embarrassed in his life as he was that day.
*edited for double quote*
gog8tors
Driving Instructor
Do we have a Duh smiley? I get the difference now. Husband has the CIB, and I remember the dust up when they wanted to award it to the Granada vets. So, they came up with a different medal.Foxmeister said:
I agree that a medal for PTSD would not be something we should do. First this is something you don't really deal with until after discharge anyway. Next there is still the crazed combat vet stigma. I really don't know the answer. I do know that it is extremely difficult for the suffers to get a disability rating of more then 10%. I'm thinking the medal it's self isn't that important as much as the help these guys need. And, making sure that people know the help is there. Some people think the VA is still like it was back in the 60's.
The good news is the mental health clinics are also being put in the community clinics. I don't think many people know that these clinics are open/ing.
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Foxmeister
Guest
The infantrymen who participated in the Grenada invasion received the CIB. There was no substitute for it. The CAB was created and approved in 2005.gog8tors said:
unionmom
Pursuit Driver
So let me get this straight ... at no point have I said PTSD isn't real and at no point have I said that PTSD shouldn't be treated and the soldiers fully taken care of yet somehow Fox has decided that I said it is fake and he has attacked me for saying so? Dude, you need to get out of the heat. :laugh
gog8tors
Driving Instructor
I think, he misunderstood you. I know you know this is not fake.unionmom said:
I don't know if people understand just how serious this is. It has nothing with one mind being weaker then another. I would almost say it is the stronger mind that is more likely to break.
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Foxmeister
Guest
unionmom said:
I'll clarify something. When your getting shot at or mortars and bombs are blowing up around you, you are going through a lot more than stress. Just saying it's a stressful situation really downplays the hell people are going through in that situation.
You have no idea because you haven't been through it. I had no idea what to expect until I went through it myself. Before I personally experienced those situations, I could only depend on what others had told me it was like for them. Even their explanations had little effect on me.
Our military members who suffer from PTSD, do so as the result of enemy hostilities; combat. It's certainly not caused because the food and coffee in a dining facility is lousy; having to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week in an office in Afghanistan or Iraq; or having too much to do in such little time. It's a direct result of enemy hostilities.
Once again, it's something they most likely will never be cured of.
unionmom
Pursuit Driver
And again, it's cute that you presume to know what I have experienced in life. You blew up and over-reacted because of whatever your personal issues are and ended up making yourself look ... well, no point going there. In the end, you basically agree with exactly what I said. Wasn't that fun? :huh
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Foxmeister
Guest
gog8tors said:
I know two guys who always considered themselves tough as nails. These guys were always in top physical condition and good size guys at that. They were really gung-ho. Now they both suffer from PTSD.
I would be willing to wager that at least half of our military personnel who experienced combat have PTSD. The only reasons why the numbers are lower than what I believe them to be is because a large percentage of them who have it, don't want to seek help for it because of the stigma so many people have attached to it.
So many people seem to think that when they are around someone with PTSD that they have to walk on eggshells because they are afraid the person with PTSD will go "postal." Many are afraid if they get treated for their PTSD, they will become ineligible to own firearms because they are suffering from a "mental disorder." A lot of them think it will adversely effect their military career progression. Those who got out of the military and suffer from it, don't seek treatment for it because they believe it will make them unemployable.
People have attached so many stigmas to PTSD and that's why so many don't seek treatment for it.
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Foxmeister
Guest
unionmom said:
Have you been in combat; had bullets shot at you; bombs exploding around you?
unionmom
Pursuit Driver
I've already told you that I am not getting into a pissing contest with you over personal experiences. I don't talk about what I've been through for a reason. I've left much of my past in the past for a reason and I'm sure as h*ll not going to post it here. Just don't presume to know what my experiences have been. (And don't think war in a foreign land is the only place to get the experiences you speak of, either.)Foxmeister said:
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Foxmeister
Guest
I think you misunderstand me unionmom. I'm very passionate when it comes to the treatment and care of our military personnel; especially those who have been wounded and suffer from injuries they will suffer from for the rest of their lives. As a leader in the Army I took care of my Soldiers and I took that very seriously; I still do. Perhaps sometimes my passion for this gets me carried away. I hate it when, especially when our government does not want to take care of those who suffer as a result of serving this country.
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Foxmeister
Guest
unionmom said:
I know PTSD isn't only a result of war in foreign lands. I know people suffer from PTSD from other traumatic events as well.
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