Left Behind

Madea

Madea

zip a dee doo dah
I wasn't sure where to put this . . . religion or movies or books.

I never read the "Left Behind" series because it (honestly) didn't appeal to me. It didn't seem to align with my personal beliefs. I saw one of these type movies many years ago as a teen and it was all just some man's idea of what might happen.

Then I read this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zack-hunt/nobody-is-getting-left-be_b_5926886.html

So. What do you think? :popcorn
 
I've made no secret of the fact that eschatology isn't one of my favorite subjects, so I've never done a lot of studying on it. I also have never read the Left Behind series, because something always seemed rather...off, for lack of a better word, about the whole rapture* thing, even going back to when I was a teenager.

* The Left Behind series assumes what is known as a Pre-Tribulation rapture, meaning God will gather the Church (i.e., Christians, not church members) away before any tribulation/end-of-world events take place. There is also a mid-trib group of thought (go through half before God takes the Church out), and a post-trib group of thought.

A few years ago, I decided to see what John MacArthur thinks about the rapture, inasmuch as he is an expository Bible teacher with heavy Presbyterian leanings like me. He said basically that he thinks it'll probably happen (didn't refer to pre/mid/post), but that he could be wrong. He then quoted some theologian of old whose name I do not recall who said (and I love this), "I know my theology's off a little bit...I just wish I knew where." LOVE. IT.

Many reputable Christian teachers either do not believe in a pre-trib rapture, or take no position on it:

R. C. Sproul - http://www.ligonier.org/blog/what-is-the-rapture/

Michael Youssef - He says that he believes in a pre-Millenial rapture (the Millenium being the 1,000 years Jesus reigns on earth before He makes things right again) but does not know when it will happen.

Then, I found this from John MacArthur, who seems to have come down on the side of it definitely happening, and as a pre-trib event:

http://verticallivingministries.com/2012/05/19/an-excellent-defense-of-the-rapture-by-dr-john-macarthur/

So I mostly agree with the HuffPo writer, but as the theologian of old said, I could be wrong. I figure I'll let God worry about the details.
 
Doesn't appeal to me either, I'm not interested in Hollywood's version.
 
I understand what the writer is saying, but in his quest for an answer he might should have read Matthew in addition to Revelation :dunno

Sure, there's no question that NO ONE knows when we will be "caught up", but these verses describe it pretty clearly to me. Whether the second coming or the rapture, people vanishing from the face of the earth is very much scriptural.

Matthew 24

36: "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,but the Father only.
37: For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
38: For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
39 : and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40: Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.41: Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.42: Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
43: But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
44: Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
 
He's not saying the Lord won't gather Christians away - he's saying the Lord won't gather Christians away before any tribulation, thereby leaving people behind here on earth suffering with no one to show them the path to the Lord. He clearly states he believes in the Second Coming when Jesus will make all things new again.

The only verses I know of that people use to back up their belief in the rapture is I Thess 4. The Matthew passage is referring to the Second Coming, as I have heard it taught. However, as stated, keep in mind that I am not an eschatology buff.
 
mei lan said:
He's not saying the Lord won't gather Christians away - he's saying the Lord won't gather Christians away before any tribulation, thereby leaving people behind here on earth suffering with no one to show them the path to the Lord. He clearly states he believes in the Second Coming when Jesus will make all things new again.

The only verses I know of that people use to back up their belief in the rapture is I Thess 4. The Matthew passage is referring to the Second Coming, as I have heard it taught. However, as stated, keep in mind that I am not an eschatology buff.
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Yes, that's why I mentioned whether it be the rapture OR the second coming. I read the entire piece and found it interesting. I wasn't dinging the writer at all. When it happens or a person's belief about when it will happen does not have anything to do with being right or wrong or being a child of God. But some may not believe HOW it will happen when the Bible is very clear on the subject. ;)
 
If watching that movie (and I haven't read the first "Left Behind" book) makes just 1 person seek God, I'm all for it. :thumbsup
 
Some friends have posted on Facebook that they liked it, some haven't liked it. This is the first place I've even approached the subject since I haven't read the books, etc.

I have family members who disagree on the "rapture". My Dad just always says, "you won't find the word 'rapture' in the Bible".
 
Here's one more thing that's bugged me (from what I've heard) about "Left Behind". The Bible says "one taken, one left". But it doesn't SAY the bodies are taken. We often refer to someone being "taken away" when they die. But their bodies are still here. The Bible tells us we'll have new bodies in Heaven. I more imagine it behind dead bodies 'left behind' than folks just disappearing.

It should be clear to most folks that I don't spend a tremendous amount of time on this. :dunno
 
Madea said:
Some friends have posted on Facebook that they liked it, some haven't liked it. This is the first place I've even approached the subject since I haven't read the books, etc.

I have family members who disagree on the "rapture". My Dad just always says, "you won't find the word 'rapture' in the Bible".
Click to expand...

That's accurate, but even the dude who wrote that piece said the word trinity doesn't either. I never checked on that, but apparently he has :dunno

I personally believe that when the Bible says we will be changed, it means our bodies will be transformed. JMHO
 
mei lan said:
He's not saying the Lord won't gather Christians away - he's saying the Lord won't gather Christians away before any tribulation, thereby leaving people behind here on earth suffering with no one to show them the path to the Lord. He clearly states he believes in the Second Coming when Jesus will make all things new again.

The only verses I know of that people use to back up their belief in the rapture is I Thess 4. The Matthew passage is referring to the Second Coming, as I have heard it taught. However, as stated, keep in mind that I am not an eschatology buff.
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I love eschatology, but am by no means an expert.

I am pre-trib in my belief. To answer the question of nobody being here to show the lost the path to the Lord...it is my belief that there are those who are "fence sitters" (in church, taught scripture, but have never been saved) and that many of those will realize in an instant that they aren't right with God when they are left and will get right real quick. They will be able to lead the lost to the Lord.

The word "rapture" comes from the latin "rapturo". That is translated from the Greek "caught up". So, the word "rapture" comes from translation.
 
Madea said:
Here's one more thing that's bugged me (from what I've heard) about "Left Behind". The Bible says "one taken, one left". But it doesn't SAY the bodies are taken. We often refer to someone being "taken away" when they die. But their bodies are still here. The Bible tells us we'll have new bodies in Heaven. I more imagine it behind dead bodies 'left behind' than folks just disappearing.

It should be clear to most folks that I don't spend a tremendous amount of time on this. :dunno
Click to expand...

I believe it will be a literal thing of us being caught up to meet the Lord, as in our bodies also. Why? 1 Thess 4:15-17

"15-For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16-For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17-Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord"

Our perishable bodies will be transformed, by Christ, to become imperishable.
1 Cor 15:42-53

"42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. "
 
Grey Colson said:
If watching that movie (and I haven't read the first "Left Behind" book) makes just 1 person seek God, I'm all for it. :thumbsup
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I can't argue with that.
 
deewee said:
Madea said:
Here's one more thing that's bugged me (from what I've heard) about "Left Behind". The Bible says "one taken, one left". But it doesn't SAY the bodies are taken. We often refer to someone being "taken away" when they die. But their bodies are still here. The Bible tells us we'll have new bodies in Heaven. I more imagine it behind dead bodies 'left behind' than folks just disappearing.

It should be clear to most folks that I don't spend a tremendous amount of time on this. :dunno
Click to expand...

I believe it will be a literal thing of us being caught up to meet the Lord, as in our bodies also. Why? 1 Thess 4:15-17

"15-For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16-For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17-Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord"

Our perishable bodies will be transformed, by Christ, to become imperishable.
1 Cor 15:42-53

"42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. "
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You made your case very well. Impressed. I note that you are taking a more "literal" viewpoint, and that's fine. I'm mostly thinking out loud, or thinking while typing. :seesaw
 
Madea said:
deewee said:
Madea said:
Here's one more thing that's bugged me (from what I've heard) about "Left Behind". The Bible says "one taken, one left". But it doesn't SAY the bodies are taken. We often refer to someone being "taken away" when they die. But their bodies are still here. The Bible tells us we'll have new bodies in Heaven. I more imagine it behind dead bodies 'left behind' than folks just disappearing.

It should be clear to most folks that I don't spend a tremendous amount of time on this. :dunno
Click to expand...

I believe it will be a literal thing of us being caught up to meet the Lord, as in our bodies also. Why? 1 Thess 4:15-17

"15-For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16-For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17-Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord"

Our perishable bodies will be transformed, by Christ, to become imperishable.
1 Cor 15:42-53

"42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. "
Click to expand...


You made your case very well. Impressed. I note that you are taking a more "literal" viewpoint, and that's fine. I'm mostly thinking out loud, or thinking while typing. :seesaw
Click to expand...

In this, yes. :)

I think out loud all the time. :D
 
I haven't read the books, but I watched the Kirk Cameron version of the Left Behind movies - there were three (and they are currently available either on Netflix or DishonDemand - I don't recall which).

Southern Baptists are taught emphatically that believers will be taken up "pre-tribulation." Personally, I believe that Jesus is coming back - whether I will be "raptured" before or after that happens, really doesn't matter. What matters is that I am a believer and that I will be raptured.

And, as an aside thought - one of the differences I recall from my Methodist upbringing was that some folks consider the "rapture" as the return of Jesus.
 
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