The Mandate

You choose to travel overseas, you have the option. You choose to join the military, you have the option. You choose to send your kids to public school, you have the option (if it's affordable).

Let me pose this question. What's the difference in mandating a jab and mandating no guns (and don't say Constitutional Amendments because obviously those aren't being honored). Would people accept turning in their guns if the goobermint said it was necessary to protect society? I think not.

Whether people admit it or not the jab issue has "mutated" into a political power grab (see what I did there). It was never about "2 weeks" but rather the first bold step towards socialism. Don't believe me, take a look at where a large percentage of our younger generations are in regards to their acceptance of socialistic policies.
 
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The argument I keep hearing against a mandate is, "we have a right to decide what we want to be in our body." What difference does it really make if it's the state government or the federal government mandating immunizations for kids to attend public schools. Don't want to immunize your kids, homeschool them.

Tenth Amendment​

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
 
We'll just agree to disagree, but for the record I think everyone should get the vaccine.
Disagreement is fine and healthy.

But the Constitution is clear about this. We're already trampling all over it in many ways, and most of the problems in this country can be traced back to those areas. Even more trampling will not solve the problems.
 
1. The only risk the unvaccinated pose is to themselves...

Unvaccinated people are more likely to end up in the hospital if they get COVID and are thus endangering hospital workers as well as people who can't get access to an ICU due to some being full of mostly COVID patients.
 
1. The only risk the unvaccinated pose is to themselves...

I see this as only partially true:

Unvaccinated people are more likely to need hospitalization... burning resources that another person may need for any other life threatening issues.

But even more importantly, and I think this is Boss's point, every time someone has an active case of the virus, there is a chance of a mutation, and a smaller chance that mutation will allow the new virus to bypass the vaccines. In this case, the unvaccinated person had a full case of the virus that now threatens everyone.
 
Unvaccinated people are more likely to need hospitalization... burning resources that another person may need for any other life threatening issues.
Are we rationing care now? Who of the needy is at the top of the list? Is the obese diabetic who doesn't control their diet or exercise more needing that the one who chooses to not vaccinate? What about the smoker, the drinker, the person who doesn't go to a gym, the person who eats two McRibs with a large fry and large coke? By the way, all are also from life choices.

Slippery slope here folks.

(I may get banned for the McRib comment)
 
Unvaccinated people are more likely to end up in the hospital if they get COVID and are thus endangering hospital workers as well as people who can't get access to an ICU due to some being full of mostly COVID patients.
Having been there, doubtful.

All the staff who comes in wear at minimum an N95 mask, and most have full on respirator masks. Many wear face sheilds too. Before entering the room they must don a disposable has-mat suit that goes in the trash as they walk out the door. And, they have fans in every COVID room to suck the Wu Germs out.

They are well protected and most are vaccinated.

The part about taking up a bed is partially true, though aside from the initial hit from COVID last year, most hospitals have not been that swamped. Just certain ones. As long as the rate of transmission stays down, I don't expect this to be a wide spread problem, at least from COVID.
 
(I may get banned for the McRib comment)
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Chiming in with thoughts. Pretty sure no one is going to change anyone's opinion on here .. haven't seen it happen on any topics - lol.

First, hospitals are swamped. Lot of beds are full here, not much room for emergency services. There are folks (with non-Covid issues) not getting seen that should. COVID patients are occupying the vast majority of beds - so the ones that have it are jeopardizing those that don't have it and need the bed. Staff are burned out.

Second, over 90% of the COVID deaths in the hospital are non-vaccinated. Similar numbers for those that have COVID and haven't died (yet). Leads me to think if you are vaccinated, you stand a lot better chance of not dieing. And you stand a lot better chance of not occupying one of those beds that someone else (with or without COVID) needs.

I don't remember reading anywhere that getting vaccinated is a guarantee you won't get COVID. I have seen plenty of stats that say IF you catch it, your symptoms are typically a lot less severe, and your odds of dieing a lot less.

I'm all for natural immunity after surviving exposure to COVID. What I'm not excited is this aspect not being recognized better.

I don't like to think that someone could share COVID with me, my family, or my friends. It could come from anyone - those with the immunity, those with the vaccine, and those that are just exercising their rights to not protect themselves (vaccine/masks) and others. If you can guarantee that I won't catch it from you, then fine do whatever you want. Being vaccinated helps to protect the one being vaccinated, and by association helps the ones around you. Same with wearing a mask, doesn't help you much but it helps those around you. Same with having immunity after catching it.

To sum it up - if you can think of a way to catch COVID, survive, and end up with natural immunity - then good on you. Until then, I think you should get the vaccine and wear a mask. Sure, it is your right to do neither .. but when you go out in public your right is leading to possible exposure to me and mine.
 
Having been there, doubtful.

All the staff who comes in wear at minimum an N95 mask, and most have full on respirator masks. Many wear face sheilds too. Before entering the room they must don a disposable has-mat suit that goes in the trash as they walk out the door. And, they have fans in every COVID room to suck the Wu Germs out.

They are well protected and most are vaccinated.

All that is true but the risk is not zero.

The part about taking up a bed is partially true, though aside from the initial hit from COVID last year, most hospitals have not been that swamped. Just certain ones. As long as the rate of transmission stays down, I don't expect this to be a wide spread problem, at least from COVID.

It isn't a widespread problem but it would be even less of a problem, perhaps even not a problem at all anywhere, if more people were vaccinated.
 
Chiming in with thoughts. Pretty sure no one is going to change anyone's opinion on here .. haven't seen it happen on any topics - lol.

First, hospitals are swamped. Lot of beds are full here, not much room for emergency services. There are folks (with non-Covid issues) not getting seen that should. COVID patients are occupying the vast majority of beds - so the ones that have it are jeopardizing those that don't have it and need the bed. Staff are burned out.

Second, over 90% of the COVID deaths in the hospital are non-vaccinated. Similar numbers for those that have COVID and haven't died (yet). Leads me to think if you are vaccinated, you stand a lot better chance of not dieing. And you stand a lot better chance of not occupying one of those beds that someone else (with or without COVID) needs.

I don't remember reading anywhere that getting vaccinated is a guarantee you won't get COVID. I have seen plenty of stats that say IF you catch it, your symptoms are typically a lot less severe, and your odds of dieing a lot less.

I'm all for natural immunity after surviving exposure to COVID. What I'm not excited is this aspect not being recognized better.

I don't like to think that someone could share COVID with me, my family, or my friends. It could come from anyone - those with the immunity, those with the vaccine, and those that are just exercising their rights to not protect themselves (vaccine/masks) and others. If you can guarantee that I won't catch it from you, then fine do whatever you want. Being vaccinated helps to protect the one being vaccinated, and by association helps the ones around you. Same with wearing a mask, doesn't help you much but it helps those around you. Same with having immunity after catching it.

To sum it up - if you can think of a way to catch COVID, survive, and end up with natural immunity - then good on you. Until then, I think you should get the vaccine and wear a mask. Sure, it is your right to do neither .. but when you go out in public your right is leading to possible exposure to me and mine.
Good to see you around, Mac
 
if you can think of a way to catch COVID, survive, and end up with natural immunity - then good on you. Until then, I think you should get the vaccine and wear a mask. Sure, it is your right to do neither .. but when you go out in public your right is leading to possible exposure to me and mine.
Well, that's a done deal with some of us...not necessarily by choice. In case you missed it, wife and I had our antibodies tested to make sure we still had them, and we were both strong. Nurse practitioner advised that we would likely not benefit from being vaccinated at this time. As time goes on, we will likely get retested and continue to consider what we need to do to hopefully not get this stuff again.

Like you, I just wish the government would better recognize natural immunity.
 
Yep, we are.

As long as it works equally in both ways and the hospital isn't negligent in any way there are endless similar stories. How many covid deaths have there been because beds were filled with non-covid patients or because there was a shortage of health care workers? There's no guarantee anyone will walk out of a hospital alive once admitted, they do the best they can to return patients to a healthy life but the outcome isn't certain.

As for as the risk of exposing someone in public every time they step out, there's a risk assumed each time anyone leaves their home. Risks which go well beyond contracting covid and with a much higher likelihood of death than from covid. I'd much rather be exposed to covid by passing a non-vaxxed person than by passing by a drunk driver, a thug strung out on drugs, or someone looking to prove themself worthy of joining a gang.

JMHO. I realize many may disagree and that's respected.
 
As long as it works equally in both ways and the hospital isn't negligent in any way there are endless similar stories. How many covid deaths have there been because beds were filled with non-covid patients or because there was a shortage of health care workers? There's no guarantee anyone will walk out of a hospital alive once admitted, they do the best they can to return patients to a healthy life but the outcome isn't certain.

As for as the risk of exposing someone in public every time they step out, there's a risk assumed each time anyone leaves their home. Risks which go well beyond contracting covid and with a much higher likelihood of death than from covid. I'd much rather be exposed to covid by passing a non-vaxxed person than by passing by a drunk driver, a thug strung out on drugs, or someone looking to prove themself worthy of joining a gang.

JMHO. I realize many may disagree and that's respected.
I'm at risk of your farts every time you come over.
 
I see this as only partially true:

Unvaccinated people are more likely to need hospitalization... burning resources that another person may need for any other life threatening issues.

But even more importantly, and I think this is Boss's point, every time someone has an active case of the virus, there is a chance of a mutation, and a smaller chance that mutation will allow the new virus to bypass the vaccines. In this case, the unvaccinated person had a full case of the virus that now threatens everyone.


The unhealthy or elderly are more likely to need hospitalization...

Over 80% of these patients are obese... immune deficient.


;)
 
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