Just a few thoughts.

[stradial]

First, these are just some thoughts, not looking to change anyone's beliefs.
But I find them interesting to think about, not obsess over, just something that is interesting.

We all know the story of Moses and the Ten Commandments.
How he went up on the mountain and received the 10 laws from God.
On a side note, that always makes me think of that scene in Mel Brooks' movie; History of the World, Part 1; where Moses comes down from the mountain with three stone tablets and announces that:
"The Lord thy God has give us these fifteen", Moses drops one of the tablets, which breaks into a thousand pieces, "Ten..ten commandments!"
Back to the point, Moses, who is the leader of the Jewish people, no other peoples, goes to the mountain and receives from God these 10 laws, with which God makes a covenant with Moses and the Jewish people.
If the Jewish people will follow these ten rules, then God will lead them to the promised land and take care of them.
The Jewish people agree and they make an ark, or container for these ten laws,
This container is called the Ark of the Covenant.
A covenant being a serious agreement between two parties, in this case, the Jewish people agreeing to follow the 10 rules and God agreeing, in return, to lead the Jewish people to the promised land and to watch over and take care of the Jewish people.

Now we have have the ten laws and an ark to keep these laws in.
But...this ark is not just any box holding ten rules.
This is a special box.
This is a place where God sits and resides when he is here on earth. In fact, it is said that people who touch the Ark of the Covenant, who are not supposed to, are killed.
It becomes what the Jewish people call the Holy of Holies, at least the room in the Temple of Solomon, in Jerusalem, where the Ark of the Covenant was kept was called that, so if the room was called the Holy of Holies just because the Ark was there, think about how special the Ark was.
Around 600BC. the Babylonians invade Jerusalem and sack and destroy the Temple of Solomon.
The Ark of the Covenant is never mentioned again.
It disappears.
Did the Babylonians take it? Did the Jewish priests hide it? Was it all one big shame to begin with?
(ok, the last question is not really part of our discussion, but it still is a possibility)

Now we get to my thoughts, which again are just something I find interesting to think on a little bit.

1. God gives these ten laws to Moses, the leader of the Jewish people.
There are all sorts of peoples on the earth at that time, just as today, but Moses is the leader of only one group, the Jews.
God tells Moses that he will make a agreement (or a deal, if you will) with the Jews, if they will obey these 10 rules, he will get them out of the desert and to the promised land and he will watch over and take care of them.
The Jews agree.
So is the covenant that God makes concerning the Ten Commandments, just between God and the Jewish people or can anyone, who is not Jewish, piggyback on that agreement?
2. These ten rules are the written agreement between God and the Jewish people. A covenant.
One that is so important that it gets it's own special box.
A box that not only holds these important legal "papers", but a place where God dwells on earth.
How does such an important object and the agreement it holds, either just disappear or get destroyed?
Wouldn't God wish to protect his written agreement with the Jewish people and if you can piggyback on it, the rest of mankind?
I mean it is not often you get something that was written by God himself with his own hand, or whatever God uses to write with.
Talk about a collectors item!!
Think how much God's signature would go for on today's market.

For the third time, these "questions" or thoughts are not meant to change anyone's beliefs, including my own, but I do find them interesting to think about at times.

 

[mei lan]

First, these are just some thoughts, not looking to change anyone's beliefs.
But I find them interesting to think about, not obsess over, just something that is interesting.

We all know the story of Moses and the Ten Commandments.
How he went up on the mountain and received the 10 laws from God.
On a side note, that always makes me think of that scene in Mel Brooks' movie; History of the World, Part 1; where Moses comes down from the mountain with three stone tablets and announces that:
"The Lord thy God has give us these fifteen", Moses drops one of the tablets, which breaks into a thousand pieces, "Ten..ten commandments!"
Back to the point, Moses, who is the leader of the Jewish people, no other peoples, goes to the mountain and receives from God these 10 laws, with which God makes a covenant with Moses and the Jewish people.
If the Jewish people will follow these ten rules, then God will lead them to the promised land and take care of them.
The Jewish people agree and they make an ark, or container for these ten laws,
This container is called the Ark of the Covenant.
A covenant being a serious agreement between two parties, in this case, the Jewish people agreeing to follow the 10 rules and God agreeing, in return, to lead the Jewish people to the promised land and to watch over and take care of the Jewish people.

Now we have have the ten laws and an ark to keep these laws in.
But...this ark is not just any box holding ten rules.
This is a special box.
This is a place where God sits and resides when he is here on earth. In fact, it is said that people who touch the Ark of the Covenant, who are not supposed to, are killed.

It becomes what the Jewish people call the Holy of Holies, at least the room in the Temple of Solomon, in Jerusalem, where the Ark of the Covenant was kept was called that, so if the room was called the Holy of Holies just because the Ark was there, think about how special the Ark was.
Around 600BC. the Babylonians invade Jerusalem and sack and destroy the Temple of Solomon.
The Ark of the Covenant is never mentioned again.
It disappears.
Did the Babylonians take it? Did the Jewish priests hide it? Was it all one big shame to begin with?
(ok, the last question is not really part of our discussion, but it still is a possibility)

Now we get to my thoughts, which again are just something I find interesting to think on a little bit.

1. God gives these ten laws to Moses, the leader of the Jewish people.
There are all sorts of peoples on the earth at that time, just as today, but Moses is the leader of only one group, the Jews.
God tells Moses that he will make a agreement (or a deal, if you will) with the Jews, if they will obey these 10 rules, he will get them out of the desert and to the promised land and he will watch over and take care of them.
The Jews agree.
So is the covenant that God makes concerning the Ten Commandments, just between God and the Jewish people or can anyone, who is not Jewish, piggyback on that agreement?
2. These ten rules are the written agreement between God and the Jewish people. A covenant.
One that is so important that it gets it's own special box.
A box that not only holds these important legal "papers", but a place where God dwells on earth.
How does such an important object and the agreement it holds, either just disappear or get destroyed?
Wouldn't God wish to protect his written agreement with the Jewish people and if you can piggyback on it, the rest of mankind?
I mean it is not often you get something that was written by God himself with his own hand, or whatever God uses to write with.
Talk about a collectors item!!
Think how much God's signature would go for on today's market.

For the third time, these "questions" or thoughts are not meant to change anyone's beliefs, including my own, but I do find them interesting to think about at times.

OK, first things first: I love Mel Brooks. Now on to the lesser points marked in red:

Two points about the first part marked in red: The Covenant between God and the Jews existed long before Moses and the Ten Commandments, which are not part of the Covenant. The Abrahamic Covenant is God saying to Abram (renamed Abraham by God) I want to make a covenant with you whereby you follow Me and I will bless you and your descendants (the evidence of said Covenant being the circumcision of all males). See Genesis 17.

The Ten Commandments, which residing place was the Ark of the Covenant, were not a quid pro quo between God and the Jews. God didn't promise to rescue the Jews in return for their obedience to the Commandments; if that were true, they'd have died out because no one can keep the Commandments because no one is perfect. (James 2:10 goes so far as to say if you've broken one Commandment, you've broken them all. Kinda like a BB through a pane of glass. Well, it's just a little hole, but the glass is still broken.) And God knew that. While He does expect us to adhere to them to the best of our ability, His primary purpose in giving them was to hold them up to us as a mirror, showing us that we could never be perfect and thereby showing also our need for God's redemption.

Second part marked in red: The Ark of the Covenant was not God's residence as much as a manifestation/reminder of His presence, if you will. God did speak from it on occasion, IIRC, and He did come into the Holy of Holies after the Temple was built. The Ark was holy and protected. It contained the Ten Commandments (two tablets), the golden pot with the manna, and Aaron's rod that budded. It's unclear if the second two items were in it all the time, or just for a period of time. It is true that anyone not authorized to touch it was killed.

Third part marked in red: Yes, anyone is allowed to "piggyback" onto the Covenant between God and Abraham (and I am so borrowing piggyback...hahahaha), but there you get into the role of Christ. For it is through Him that we have access to God, and are allowed to "piggyback" onto the Covenant with the Jews. The Bible plainly says in the New Testament in several places that God's offer of redemption is to the Jews and to the Gentiles.

Fourth part in red: That is a fantastic question which has mesmerized many for centuries. As to the why did God allow it to disappear, my guess is that you may be onto something at the end of your question...He knew if the whereabouts were known, people would begin to worship it instead of Him, and some would be tempted to profit from it. That's the mei lan take on it, anyway.

It is rumored to be in a Christian monastery in Ethiopia. IDK. I think the possibility of the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark just as plausible. GREAT movie.

 

[stradial]

See, this is what is makes this stuff interesting.
Because, the Jews, who were the people involved, say that it was a covenant between God and them about the 10 laws and God leading them to the holy land.
Remember, they had been wandering around lost for quite a few years before this.
(BTW, you would think that a least one person would have said, "Hey Mo! You've had that map for the past 30+ years, you mind if one of us took a look at it?")
And the Jews said that the Ark of the Covenant was the "seat of God" on earth.
BTW, just for funnsies, the ark is described as being a plain wooden box in, I think it is Deuteronomy and being an ornate wooden box, with gold trimmings a cherubs with wings on top, in Exodus. (or the other way around)
Another example of a contradiction.

I appreciate you input, like I said, it is interesting stuff to think about now and again.
One last note, they found an ark that resembles how the 1st Temple of Solomon is described, a few years ago in an excavation.
It had the three tiered doorway like is described for the 1st Temple of Solomon in the Bible.
An ark is a cupboard or container.
They feel like this ark was used as a personal shrine in someone's home, based on where it was found and other stuff.
BTW, it predates the 1st Temple of Solomon, which makes it even more interesting.

 

[mei lan]

See, this is what is makes this stuff interesting.
Because, the Jews, who were the people involved, say that it was a covenant between God and them about the 10 laws and God leading them to the holy land.
Remember, they had been wandering around lost for quite a few years before this.
(BTW, you would think that a least one person would have said, "Hey Mo! You've had that map for the past 30+ years, you mind if one of us took a look at it?")
And the Jews said that the Ark of the Covenant was the "seat of God" on earth.
BTW, just for funnsies, the ark is described as being a plain wooden box in, I think it is Deuteronomy and being an ornate wooden box, with gold trimmings a cherubs with wings on top, in Exodus. (or the other way around)
Another example of a contradiction.

Where are you getting that the Jews said this is a Covenant in return for getting them into the promised land? In Exodus 19, it says they camped at Sinai (where the 10 Commandments were handed down) on the first day of the third month after they left Egypt, so they hadn't been traveling very long. And in the entire passage (Exodus 20), it doesn't say anything about a Covenant or agreement regarding passage into the Promised Land.

The Jews actually got to the end of their journey into the Promised Land pretty quickly, for a couple of million people schlepping across the desert with all their animals and crap. When they got close, Moses sent out spies into the land to scope things out. He sent 12 spies; 10 of them came back with sad-sack-Eeyore reports...we'll never get in, blah blah blah. 2 of the spies, Caleb and Joshua, said hold the phone - yes, we will get in. This is a great land and we can conquer it. But the people listened to the 10 and much wailing and gnashing of teeth did occur, and they wondered why they had ever left Egypt. So the Lord said to Moses ok, fine - they don't believe I can deliver the Promised Land, you will now wander around aimlessly for 40 years (40 being a Biblical symbol for trouble, hard times) till this generation of adults has died off. Then I'll lead you into the Promised Land. (See Numbers 13, 14.) Caleb and Joshua went into the Promised Land with the younger folks, but everybody who doubted died off before they went in.

 

[mei lan]

As an aside, I found this interesting link on an apologetics web site about the Exodus.

http://carm.org/why-isnt-there-any-record-millions-jews-wandering-desert

The Williams guy mentioned in it is the father of Michelle Williams, the actress who was married to Heath Ledger. I have seen the video the guy talks about (a well-produced documentary), and the idea of a different route than across the Sinai Peninsula is compelling.

 

[Boss 302]

See, this is what is makes this stuff interesting.
Because, the Jews, who were the people involved, say that it was a covenant between God and them about the 10 laws and God leading them to the holy land.
Remember, they had been wandering around lost for quite a few years before this.
(BTW, you would think that a least one person would have said, "Hey Mo! You've had that map for the past 30+ years, you mind if one of us took a look at it?")
And the Jews said that the Ark of the Covenant was the "seat of God" on earth.
BTW, just for funnsies, the ark is described as being a plain wooden box in, I think it is Deuteronomy and being an ornate wooden box, with gold trimmings a cherubs with wings on top, in Exodus. (or the other way around)
Another example of a contradiction.

Where are you getting that the Jews said this is a Covenant in return for getting them into the promised land? In Exodus 19, it says they camped at Sinai (where the 10 Commandments were handed down) on the first day of the third month after they left Egypt, so they hadn't been traveling very long. And in the entire passage (Exodus 20), it doesn't say anything about a Covenant or agreement regarding passage into the Promised Land.

The Jews actually got to the end of their journey into the Promised Land pretty quickly, for a couple of million people schlepping across the desert with all their animals and crap. When they got close, Moses sent out spies into the land to scope things out. He sent 12 spies; 10 of them came back with sad-sack-Eeyore reports...we'll never get in, blah blah blah. 2 of the spies, Caleb and Joshua, said hold the phone - yes, we will get in. This is a great land and we can conquer it. But the people listened to the 10 and much wailing and gnashing of teeth did occur, and they wondered why they had ever left Egypt. So the Lord said to Moses ok, fine - they don't believe I can deliver the Promised Land, you will now wander around aimlessly for 40 years (40 being a Biblical symbol for trouble, hard times) till this generation of adults has died off. Then I'll lead you into the Promised Land. (See Numbers 13, 14.) Caleb and Joshua went into the Promised Land with the younger folks, but everybody who doubted died off before they went in.

I liked how you used Yiddish.

 

[mei lan]

See, this is what is makes this stuff interesting.
Because, the Jews, who were the people involved, say that it was a covenant between God and them about the 10 laws and God leading them to the holy land.
Remember, they had been wandering around lost for quite a few years before this.
(BTW, you would think that a least one person would have said, "Hey Mo! You've had that map for the past 30+ years, you mind if one of us took a look at it?")
And the Jews said that the Ark of the Covenant was the "seat of God" on earth.
BTW, just for funnsies, the ark is described as being a plain wooden box in, I think it is Deuteronomy and being an ornate wooden box, with gold trimmings a cherubs with wings on top, in Exodus. (or the other way around)
Another example of a contradiction.

Where are you getting that the Jews said this is a Covenant in return for getting them into the promised land? In Exodus 19, it says they camped at Sinai (where the 10 Commandments were handed down) on the first day of the third month after they left Egypt, so they hadn't been traveling very long. And in the entire passage (Exodus 20), it doesn't say anything about a Covenant or agreement regarding passage into the Promised Land.

The Jews actually got to the end of their journey into the Promised Land pretty quickly, for a couple of million people schlepping across the desert with all their animals and crap. When they got close, Moses sent out spies into the land to scope things out. He sent 12 spies; 10 of them came back with sad-sack-Eeyore reports...we'll never get in, blah blah blah. 2 of the spies, Caleb and Joshua, said hold the phone - yes, we will get in. This is a great land and we can conquer it. But the people listened to the 10 and much wailing and gnashing of teeth did occur, and they wondered why they had ever left Egypt. So the Lord said to Moses ok, fine - they don't believe I can deliver the Promised Land, you will now wander around aimlessly for 40 years (40 being a Biblical symbol for trouble, hard times) till this generation of adults has died off. Then I'll lead you into the Promised Land. (See Numbers 13, 14.) Caleb and Joshua went into the Promised Land with the younger folks, but everybody who doubted died off before they went in.

I liked how you used Yiddish.

Oy. I was about to think no one noticed.

 

[mei lan]

OK, I found the reference to the covenant and teh 10 Commandments. It's not in the account of the original giving of the tablets. But after Moses came down the mountain and discovered the people had built a golden calf to worship after they got tired of waiting for him, he threw the tablets on the ground and broke them. So a bit later, the Lord told him to bring two more pieces of stone up the mountain and the Lord rewrote the Commandments.

It is in this account in Exodus 32 (and Deuteronomy 10) and following chapters that the Lord refers to the Commandments as a covenant. But rather than a quid pro quo for getting them into the Promised Land (although He did say obey me and I will get you thhere), it was more a continuation of the Abrahamic covenant where He said I will be your God and you will be My people...sort of a love relationship rather than a contractual bargaining.

It was after this that the people rejected Caleb and Joshua's encouragement to go into the Promised Land and believe the Lord, and therefore they had to wander around for 40 years what should have taken them 11 days.

 

[stradial]

OK, I found the reference to the covenant and teh 10 Commandments. It's not in the account of the original giving of the tablets. But after Moses came down the mountain and discovered the people had built a golden calf to worship after they got tired of waiting for him, he threw the tablets on the ground and broke them. So a bit later, the Lord told him to bring two more pieces of stone up the mountain and the Lord rewrote the Commandments.

It is in this account in Exodus 32 (and Deuteronomy 10) and following chapters that the Lord refers to the Commandments as a covenant. But rather than a quid pro quo for getting them into the Promised Land (although He did say obey me and I will get you thhere), it was more a continuation of the Abrahamic covenant where He said I will be your God and you will be My people...sort of a love relationship rather than a contractual bargaining.

It was after this that the people rejected Caleb and Joshua's encouragement to go into the Promised Land and believe the Lord, and therefore they had to wander around for 40 years what should have taken them 11 days.

 

[LisaC]

Hey, nobody mentioned that there was going to be a Bible study this weekend!

 

[Guard Dad]

Hey, nobody mentioned that there was going to be a Bible study this weekend!

You shouldn't have played hooky

 

[LisaC]

Hey, nobody mentioned that there was going to be a Bible study this weekend!

You shouldn't have played hooky

I had stuff to do - like laying on the couch and staring at the TV (although I didn't actually turn it on).

 

[deewee]

Hey, nobody mentioned that there was going to be a Bible study this weekend!

You shouldn't have played hooky

I had stuff to do - like laying on the couch and staring at the TV (although I didn't actually turn it on).

You stared at a blank screen? They had an NCIS marathon yesterday.

 

[LisaC]

Hey, nobody mentioned that there was going to be a Bible study this weekend!

You shouldn't have played hooky

I had stuff to do - like laying on the couch and staring at the TV (although I didn't actually turn it on).

You stared at a blank screen? They had an NCIS marathon yesterday.

For the few minutes that my eyes were open, yes ma'am. I had about two hours where the hubby and the princess were gone, so I took advantage of it.

 

[mei lan]

BTW, just for funnsies, the ark is described as being a plain wooden box in, I think it is Deuteronomy and being an ornate wooden box, with gold trimmings a cherubs with wings on top, in Exodus. (or the other way around)
Another example of a contradiction.

Inasmuch as I am not detail-oriented and basically do not care, I haven't researched this. However, what I did read was that it was a wooden box overlaid with gold, etc. What could have happened is two different mindsets writing the two accounts...even though Moses wrote both books, they weren't at the same time, and his thinking could have been focused on something else rather than the details of the ark. Kind of like the gospels - written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the accounts are vastly different although covering the same time period. Luke I find especially fascinating because he was a doctor, and his account is very detailed. Anyhoo, them's my thoughts.

 

[mei lan]

I do realize I was in my ponderous, deep-thinking mode while answering this. Sorry, twin. :soashamed

 

[stradial]

BTW, just for funnsies, the ark is described as being a plain wooden box in, I think it is Deuteronomy and being an ornate wooden box, with gold trimmings a cherubs with wings on top, in Exodus. (or the other way around)
Another example of a contradiction.

Inasmuch as I am not detail-oriented and basically do not care, I haven't researched this. However, what I did read was that it was a wooden box overlaid with gold, etc. What could have happened is two different mindsets writing the two accounts...even though Moses wrote both books, they weren't at the same time, and his thinking could have been focused on something else rather than the details of the ark. Kind of like the gospels - written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the accounts are vastly different although covering the same time period. Luke I find especially fascinating because he was a doctor, and his account is very detailed. Anyhoo, them's my thoughts.

I agree that the description doesn't matter to the story.
But if you are looking to find the it, what it looks like would make a difference.
I checked all our closets, no ark, although I guess technically the closets themselves are an ark.

 

[Guard Dad]

I do realize I was in my ponderous, deep-thinking mode while answering this. Sorry, twin. :soashamed

I figured it was the drugs.