How incompetent is our President?

Blazing Saddles

Pursuit Driver
Can America look any worse? Just listened to a commentary about Libya and the turnmoil there. They are talking about the citizens of other countries and a possible "no fly" zone over the country. Several opinions about the matter stated if it was going to be the right thing to do and how do we pull it off. Of course the UN was mentioned but the bigger problem was HOW? We don't even have an aircraft carrier in the area. One is coming from the Red Sea but that is still many days away. Officials said that we should have moved a carrier to the region 2 weeks ago. What do we expect from this idiot in the White House with NO foreign policy or military experience. (in fact, I'm pretty sure he hates what it stands for) The biggest blunder came when the contributors were talking about the evacuation plans of foreigners. She said the Americans didn't have any plans for rescue and that the only thing they could get was a ferry. A freakin ferry. It bobbled for 3 days in the ocean before it could even attempt a rescue all the while, British and French military went in and retrieved their people. This crap has got to stop. We are a joke in the eyes of the world. Truly sad. I feel we should always keep a carrier in the Mediterranian Sea for just these purposes.
 
I agree. It takes him too long to respond to a situation. He is too inexperienced in foreign policy and Biden is of no help.
 
There really isn't a lot for us to do right now in Libya or Egypt. These are sovereign Nations experiencing internal unrest. It would be foolhardy to run off half cocked and let a nation building ideology trump actual practical need. As long as we are doing everything possible to keep our citizens out of harm's way, we need to stay on the sidelines until this thing shakes out. We can offer our help to the winner, and that appears to soon be the Rebels. Our intelligence community again appears to have failed us, and the opportunity to influence any outcome has passed in North Africa. Platitudes are about all we have left there.

Our real interests lie on the Arabian Peninsula. Should Saudi Arabia experience unrest, our goose is cooked. I hope Obama et. al. is currently working with the Saudi's to prevent this by urging them to make preemptive and substantive concessions to the government opposition.
 
Obama should have begun the planning of getting US personnel out of Libya as soon as the protests began. Getting them out should have begun as soon as it appeared events were going to escalate, just as the Brits and others did.

The events occuring in Libya and other Arab nations are causing oil prices to quickly rise as speculators see pretty much nothing but gloom and doom for the near future. This in turn is causing our fuel prices to increase as well as retail prices.

The continuation of these events are going to play havoc with our economy the longer they last. The president needs to lift his moritorium to allow offshore drilling to begin once again. He needs to allow access to US oil companies to drill from deposits where they are currently prohibited to do so. We need to quickly increase our domestic oil production and urge the Saudis to do the same if we want to prevent the economy from going into a deeper recession.

There's lots the president should be doing, but I really don't think he cares.
 
Foxmeister said:
I agree. It takes him too long to respond to a situation. He is too inexperienced in foreign policy and Biden is of no help.

Well, you have to admit that it takes at least two weeks of holding your finger up to figure out which way the political wind is blowing. Just like he did with Egypt. "Taking a Stand" to P-Bo means waiting to see which way a particular situation is headed and trying to jump on the band wagon of the side he believes will prevail. His decisions have N O T H I N G to do with principle.
 
To be quite frank, I'm getting sick and tired of Obama blaming the intelligence community for his own indecisiveness.
 
Foxmeister said:
As someone who works in the intelligence community, I have to ask you where do you get the idea we failed?

Obama should have begun the planning of getting US personnel out of Libya as soon as the protests began. Getting them out should have begun as soon as it appeared events were going to escalate, just as the Brits and others did.

The events occuring in Libya and other Arab nations are causing oil prices to quickly rise as speculators see pretty much nothing but gloom and doom for the near future. This in turn is causing our fuel prices to increase as well as retail prices.

The continuation of these events are going to play havoc with our economy the longer they last. The president needs to lift his moritorium to allow offshore drilling to begin once again. He needs to allow access to US oil companies to drill from deposits where they are currently prohibited to do so. We need to quickly increase our domestic oil production and urge the Saudis to do the same if we want to prevent the economy from going into a deeper recession.

There's lots the president should be doing, but I really don't think he cares.

Unless ALL of the reports are incorrect, the intelligence community failed to predict the revolts in North Africa. Had they done so, we could have perhaps worked to ease the transition, perhaps not. But we would have had diplomatic options that we don't now have. We would have also had more time to plan to remove our people.


I do think he has far more interest in his domestic policy than foreign policy, which he quite frankly seems to delegate more easily, and I think that works in our favor because his rhetoric is apologetic pacifist but his policy is quite in line with previous administrations. But I really don't see what he could or should do different at this point in North Africa. Our people are out, after a cluster eff admittedly, but they are out, and the base in Bahrain appears to be safe. We can't go riding in like John Wayne into every two bit dictatorship and take over because we don't agree with a country's politics or because we wish for a peaceful transition of power to a potentially more friendly brand. It's a sovereign nation. That would be putting ideology in the way of practicality, a formula sure to fail.

As for oil prices, it is baseless speculation at this point. Not one drop of US oil is in real jeopardy, and it appears that not one drop of oil period will be reduced. Bernanke has a far more active role in setting oil prices through dollar devaluation than a piss ant dictator in a country that produced 2% of the world's oil in an environment of 10% excess capacity. Like I said, this will all change if Saudi Arabia becomes involved, and that's where our efforts should be concentrated. I hope they are. In this case we can be proactive instead of reactionary, and perhaps protect our true economic and defense needs in the region.

BTW, a deep drilling permit was issued today, although I don't think it was related to Africa. It appears to be in response to political pressure and the fact that the Administration has been on the losing end in court. I agree it's about time.
 
Have you ever worked in the intel community LTD? It's not an exact science. In many cases, the intel community is dependent upon sources within the country they are reporting on. Those sources can at times give false and unreliable information. The sources can be accurate, but things change can change quickly without warning after they pass information on.

It can often be like reporting the weather forecast for tomorrow is going to be sunny and 80 degrees because the computer models indicate so, but then the next day it's raining and only 60. The point is there are all kinds of variables that come into play that those who are gathering intelligence have no idea are there. I can be following a car south on I-75 for 50 miles. The only thing I know for sure is he's traveling south on I-75. Do I know what his destination is? Somebody could have told me he was going to Florida, but then he ends his traveling in Macon. Did I fail?
 
Foxmeister said:
Have you ever worked in the intel community LTD? It's not an exact science. In many cases, the intel community is dependent upon sources within the country they are reporting on. Those sources can at times give false and unreliable information. The sources can be accurate, but things change can change quickly without warning after they pass information on.

It can often be like reporting the weather forecast for tomorrow is going to be sunny and 80 degrees because the computer models indicate so, but then the next day it's raining and only 60. The point is there are all kinds of variables that come into play that those who are gathering intelligence have no idea are there. I can be following a car south on I-75 for 50 miles. The only thing I know for sure is he's traveling south on I-75. Do I know what his destination is? Somebody could have told me he was going to Florida, but then he ends his traveling in Macon. Did I fail?

That might explain Libya where we have a very touch and go relationship at best. Human intelligence there would understandably be hard to come by and subject to manipulation. But you certainly are not suggesting that our intelligence community can be summarily excused for not knowing that one of our biggest allies in the region was about to undergo a revolution, a bloodless coup, and near civil war. That's not something that we should allow to surprise us. That to me is an inexcusable failure. Variables or not, this was a huge miss. I understand that they don't have a crystal ball, but I hope they at least own a good pair of reading glasses.

Now if you can tell me that the Administration was repeatedly warned of the fragility of the Mubarak regime, the military's displeasure with the government, and of the increasing unrest and organization against him, and that there was a real potential for an uprising backed by the very Egyptian military that we support and rely upon for intelligence within the region, then I'll lay it right in Obama's lap. But that just simply is not what I have been hearing from anyone.

I'm sure that nobody is completely blameless , but really, who should have seen the writing on the wall here, the CIA or the administration?
 
First of all, I can't tell you if the administration was warned on anything. Only the president can tell you that. Like I said earlier, the administration could have been told, but say they weren't and there's nothing the intel community can say or do to defend itself without violating the law.

We've all read the news reports about how the protesting started with a FB page. Now lets say you knew about the FB page and was monitoring it. There's discussion about meeting in the square in Cairo on Friday to protest Mubarak. 100 people say they plan to be there. Now what do you report? Can you accurately predict 100,000 people are going to show up? Of course not. Can you predict how Mubarak is going to react? It would be safe to make the assessment he will order the police to disperse the crowd. Then what?
 
The Brits are not waiting around for a bigger massacre before taking action :

SAS To Seize Libya's Chemical Weapons

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8355955/Libya-SAS-ready-to-seize-Col-Gaddafis-stores-of-mustard-gas.html
 
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