Group punishments?

[Madea]

How do you feel about "group punishments"? Me, not so much. Especially when it involves my daughter who I KNOW behaves in class. (Now, if it were my son I would just make him accept the punishment and assume he was involved. ) )

On Monday, my daughter's class was "too loud" going into an elective class. Teacher gets peeved and assigns a task to the group which the parent must sign. She told me about it, but she didn't do it. I didn't sign. It was due back on Tuesday. This morning the teacher calls around 7:30 a.m. and left a message about the assignment.

I'll tell you what I did (after a few opinions) and you can :CLAP or :Stick later.

 

[mei lan]

Yeah, I've never been big on that sort of thing.

 

[deewee]

I'm not a fan of "group" punishment, unless it is a problem that warrants it.

IE- In dealing with our 3 boys, we'd go thru a couple of steps: 1) Instruct/tell the child to stop the behavior, 2)One more instruction, with a reminder that the next time we had to speak was an "out", 3) Punish, with no discussion of how we got to this point, because we made sure he knew beforehand. We'd only punish the offending act/child.

However, and this was usually the case before it was over with, then his brothers start "agging" him on, or somehow get involved indirectly. At that point, they all get punished the same, just for being remotely involved.

 

[J-man]

I'm not really crazy about the group punishment idea, especially for younger kids. It's hard enough to get one to behave much less 20 at the same time. It can effective for "team building" but in your example (going to class) I wouldn't think it would work too well other than making the teacher feel better.

 

[Madea]

My daughter is 7th grade. IMHO, the teacher has already spent a considerable amount of time on this issue.

1) class discussion on Monday, handing out assignment, etc
2) class discussion on Tuesday, reviewing assignments, etc
3) phone calls to parents on Wednesday

I know that middle school kids can be a PITA. But, I also try very hard to teach my children personal responsibility and acceptable behaviors. Yes, I know not everyone does that.

 

[LisaC]

I see your point, but maybe she is also trying to teach the class that they should be willing to hold their friends accountable for their behavior. Or maybe she wants the class to learn to work as a team.

As a personal rule, I'm not big on interfering with how the teacher runs her class unless it's detrimental to my child. My princess needs to learn that there will be times when another person's bad behavior will impact her world.

 

[ShoeDiva]

As a parent I am not fond of group punishment, because since my son has never been in trouble at school individually, I am pretty certain I can state he was not involved.

That said, from the teachers perspective, in middle school they push the limits, and many times over and over. If they had been told more than a couple times to behave and they are not, there has to be a consequence or the year is over for that teacher. Is every single child misbehaving? Probably not, but with one teacher and 25-35 students, unless those that are misbehaving speak up you have to punish all.

As long as the "punishment" is not unreasonable, I have had my child do it. Why? Because unfortunately life is not fair, and I do not want to be the one to tell the teacher mine is not doing it and the teacher feel I am not backing her/him up. That makes for a not so good year for my child because I do not care what they might tell you when you speak to them. Johnny or Susie will be known as having that parent. :) Totally not fair because you are just standing up for your child, but unless it is a big punishment (unreasonable) it is not going to kill my kid to just do it and realize some of those others might be ones to stay away from, they are not changing and it is costing him time/work.

 

[ShoeDiva]

My daughter is 7th grade. IMHO, the teacher has already spent a considerable amount of time on this issue.

1) class discussion on Monday, handing out assignment, etc
2) class discussion on Tuesday, reviewing assignments, etc
3) phone calls to parents on Wednesday

I know that middle school kids can be a PITA. But, I also try very hard to teach my children personal responsibility and acceptable behaviors. Yes, I know not everyone does that.

If she has spent that much time on the issue it is already out of hand and she should have punished/regained control sooner.
And sadly you are probably one of maybe 10 in the class that are doing their job to teach personal responsibility and acceptable behaviors. The other 15-20 are making excuses for the kids behavior and blaming the teacher. :huh

I personally love parents like you. You seriously would be shocked and astounded by some of the parents I have encountered. :BH I wish I had your sweet girl over with me!


FTR: Some teachers do stink. It is them, and not your kid or the class. Every school has one or two, but hopefully that is not the case in this situation.

 

[stradial]

Not a big fan, but it happened in my day also.
Mostly the punishment was take a pop test or write a paper in class that day, or the next day.
I am sure the teacher used common sense when grading the tests or papers.
I never thought much about it, sometimes I was involved in the talking (that was mostly what happened in my day) and sometimes I was not involved.

My son got caught in this type of deal once and I told him, "nope, not fair", sometimes son, life is not fair.
This is one of those times.

Not that it is the right way to handle it for all kids, but I know what my mother would have said in my day.
"If you weren't guilty today, you were guilty at some time."

 

[Madea]

Almost without fail, I have always been a strong supporter of the teachers. And, many times stood with the teachers instead of my children. I went into each situation believing in the adult in the room and accepting the fact that children will tell the story to their advantage. A teacher when my son was in the 6th grade burned me on that one. While I will confirm that she is an exception, I now know it can happen. And, I know parents are out of control and, as a result, kids are out of control.

I do not know the teacher in my daughter's situation. Surprisingly, it is a male teacher who seems to be having problems getting these kids in line. (yes, you may construe that as sexist if you so choose)

Yes, we've had the conversations with our children about life isn't always fair. The way my Dad worded situations like this was "you are classed with the company you keep". (Ex., you may be sober, but if you are at the party and others are drunk they will take you all to jail and sort it out later.)

Last year my daughter had a teacher who told the class she didn't like them. She would have my daughter take things to the front office for her and told her it was because she was the only one in the class she could trust.

My daughter has not (yet) completed the assignment, but I have sent in my signature and acknowledged the assignment. I, quite frankly, haven't decided if I will make her complete it or not. :seesaw

 

[stradial]

Almost without fail, I have always been a strong supporter of the teachers. And, many times stood with the teachers instead of my children. I went into each situation believing in the adult in the room and accepting the fact that children will tell the story to their advantage. A teacher when my son was in the 6th grade burned me on that one. While I will confirm that she is an exception, I now know it can happen. And, I know parents are out of control and, as a result, kids are out of control.

I do not know the teacher in my daughter's situation. Surprisingly, it is a male teacher who seems to be having problems getting these kids in line. (yes, you may construe that as sexist if you so choose)

Yes, we've had the conversations with our children about life isn't always fair. The way my Dad worded situations like this was "you are classed with the company you keep". (Ex., you may be sober, but if you are at the party and others are drunk they will take you all to jail and sort it out later.)

Last year my daughter had a teacher who told the class she didn't like them. She would have my daughter take things to the front office for her and told her it was because she was the only one in the class she could trust.

My daughter has not (yet) completed the assignment, but I have sent in my signature and acknowledged the assignment. I, quite frankly, haven't decided if I will make her complete it or not. :seesaw

You know how to handle it better than anyone else.
Like you said, if it was your son, it would be different.

Each child and each situation is different, as you noted.

 

[ShoeDiva]

Almost without fail, I have always been a strong supporter of the teachers. And, many times stood with the teachers instead of my children. I went into each situation believing in the adult in the room and accepting the fact that children will tell the story to their advantage. A teacher when my son was in the 6th grade burned me on that one. While I will confirm that she is an exception, I now know it can happen. And, I know parents are out of control and, as a result, kids are out of control.

I do not know the teacher in my daughter's situation. Surprisingly, it is a male teacher who seems to be having problems getting these kids in line. (yes, you may construe that as sexist if you so choose)

Yes, we've had the conversations with our children about life isn't always fair. The way my Dad worded situations like this was "you are classed with the company you keep". (Ex., you may be sober, but if you are at the party and others are drunk they will take you all to jail and sort it out later.)

Last year my daughter had a teacher who told the class she didn't like them. She would have my daughter take things to the front office for her and told her it was because she was the only one in the class she could trust.

My daughter has not (yet) completed the assignment, but I have sent in my signature and acknowledged the assignment. I, quite frankly, haven't decided if I will make her complete it or not. :seesaw

Wow.. on the teacher saying that to the class. I believe your daughter was trusted, she is one I would pick too. ) Honestly the teacher this year probably knows that too. Her demeanor is one of a child that is sweet and follows direction, you can usually tell.

Is the teacher this year a new one?

 

[honeybunny]

Almost without fail, I have always been a strong supporter of the teachers. And, many times stood with the teachers instead of my children. I went into each situation believing in the adult in the room and accepting the fact that children will tell the story to their advantage. A teacher when my son was in the 6th grade burned me on that one. While I will confirm that she is an exception, I now know it can happen. And, I know parents are out of control and, as a result, kids are out of control.

I do not know the teacher in my daughter's situation. Surprisingly, it is a male teacher who seems to be having problems getting these kids in line. (yes, you may construe that as sexist if you so choose)

Yes, we've had the conversations with our children about life isn't always fair. The way my Dad worded situations like this was "you are classed with the company you keep". (Ex., you may be sober, but if you are at the party and others are drunk they will take you all to jail and sort it out later.)

Last year my daughter had a teacher who told the class she didn't like them. She would have my daughter take things to the front office for her and told her it was because she was the only one in the class she could trust.

My daughter has not (yet) completed the assignment, but I have sent in my signature and acknowledged the assignment. I, quite frankly, haven't decided if I will make her complete it or not. :seesaw

You could have her write a persuasive argument paper on
"Why Group Punishments Are Wrong"... everybody wins.


:laugh

 

[Madea]

Almost without fail, I have always been a strong supporter of the teachers. And, many times stood with the teachers instead of my children. I went into each situation believing in the adult in the room and accepting the fact that children will tell the story to their advantage. A teacher when my son was in the 6th grade burned me on that one. While I will confirm that she is an exception, I now know it can happen. And, I know parents are out of control and, as a result, kids are out of control.

I do not know the teacher in my daughter's situation. Surprisingly, it is a male teacher who seems to be having problems getting these kids in line. (yes, you may construe that as sexist if you so choose)

Yes, we've had the conversations with our children about life isn't always fair. The way my Dad worded situations like this was "you are classed with the company you keep". (Ex., you may be sober, but if you are at the party and others are drunk they will take you all to jail and sort it out later.)

Last year my daughter had a teacher who told the class she didn't like them. She would have my daughter take things to the front office for her and told her it was because she was the only one in the class she could trust.

My daughter has not (yet) completed the assignment, but I have sent in my signature and acknowledged the assignment. I, quite frankly, haven't decided if I will make her complete it or not. :seesaw

Wow.. on the teacher saying that to the class. I believe your daughter was trusted, she is one I would pick too. ) Honestly the teacher this year probably knows that too. Her demeanor is one of a child that is sweet and follows direction, you can usually tell.

Is the teacher this year a new one?

He is new to the school. Based on the phone message this morning, he has an accent, but I'm not sure where he is from. It makes me wonder if kids are taking advantage. Actually, no. I'm not wondering, I'm pretty sure they are. :tapfoot2

 

[Madea]

Almost without fail, I have always been a strong supporter of the teachers. And, many times stood with the teachers instead of my children. I went into each situation believing in the adult in the room and accepting the fact that children will tell the story to their advantage. A teacher when my son was in the 6th grade burned me on that one. While I will confirm that she is an exception, I now know it can happen. And, I know parents are out of control and, as a result, kids are out of control.

I do not know the teacher in my daughter's situation. Surprisingly, it is a male teacher who seems to be having problems getting these kids in line. (yes, you may construe that as sexist if you so choose)

Yes, we've had the conversations with our children about life isn't always fair. The way my Dad worded situations like this was "you are classed with the company you keep". (Ex., you may be sober, but if you are at the party and others are drunk they will take you all to jail and sort it out later.)

Last year my daughter had a teacher who told the class she didn't like them. She would have my daughter take things to the front office for her and told her it was because she was the only one in the class she could trust.

My daughter has not (yet) completed the assignment, but I have sent in my signature and acknowledged the assignment. I, quite frankly, haven't decided if I will make her complete it or not. :seesaw

You could have her write a persuasive argument paper on
"Why Group Punishments Are Wrong"... everybody wins.


:laugh

:laugh Now that I would sign. :laugh

 

[ShoeDiva]

Almost without fail, I have always been a strong supporter of the teachers. And, many times stood with the teachers instead of my children. I went into each situation believing in the adult in the room and accepting the fact that children will tell the story to their advantage. A teacher when my son was in the 6th grade burned me on that one. While I will confirm that she is an exception, I now know it can happen. And, I know parents are out of control and, as a result, kids are out of control.

I do not know the teacher in my daughter's situation. Surprisingly, it is a male teacher who seems to be having problems getting these kids in line. (yes, you may construe that as sexist if you so choose)

Yes, we've had the conversations with our children about life isn't always fair. The way my Dad worded situations like this was "you are classed with the company you keep". (Ex., you may be sober, but if you are at the party and others are drunk they will take you all to jail and sort it out later.)

Last year my daughter had a teacher who told the class she didn't like them. She would have my daughter take things to the front office for her and told her it was because she was the only one in the class she could trust.

My daughter has not (yet) completed the assignment, but I have sent in my signature and acknowledged the assignment. I, quite frankly, haven't decided if I will make her complete it or not. :seesaw

Wow.. on the teacher saying that to the class. I believe your daughter was trusted, she is one I would pick too. ) Honestly the teacher this year probably knows that too. Her demeanor is one of a child that is sweet and follows direction, you can usually tell.

Is the teacher this year a new one?

He is new to the school. Based on the phone message this morning, he has an accent, but I'm not sure where he is from. It makes me wonder if kids are taking advantage. Actually, no. I'm not wondering, I'm pretty sure they are. :tapfoot2

It is only September. I hope he gets this all under control for both his sake and the kids.

 

[Madea]

Almost without fail, I have always been a strong supporter of the teachers. And, many times stood with the teachers instead of my children. I went into each situation believing in the adult in the room and accepting the fact that children will tell the story to their advantage. A teacher when my son was in the 6th grade burned me on that one. While I will confirm that she is an exception, I now know it can happen. And, I know parents are out of control and, as a result, kids are out of control.

I do not know the teacher in my daughter's situation. Surprisingly, it is a male teacher who seems to be having problems getting these kids in line. (yes, you may construe that as sexist if you so choose)

Yes, we've had the conversations with our children about life isn't always fair. The way my Dad worded situations like this was "you are classed with the company you keep". (Ex., you may be sober, but if you are at the party and others are drunk they will take you all to jail and sort it out later.)

Last year my daughter had a teacher who told the class she didn't like them. She would have my daughter take things to the front office for her and told her it was because she was the only one in the class she could trust.

My daughter has not (yet) completed the assignment, but I have sent in my signature and acknowledged the assignment. I, quite frankly, haven't decided if I will make her complete it or not. :seesaw

Wow.. on the teacher saying that to the class. I believe your daughter was trusted, she is one I would pick too. ) Honestly the teacher this year probably knows that too. Her demeanor is one of a child that is sweet and follows direction, you can usually tell.

Is the teacher this year a new one?

He is new to the school. Based on the phone message this morning, he has an accent, but I'm not sure where he is from. It makes me wonder if kids are taking advantage. Actually, no. I'm not wondering, I'm pretty sure they are. :tapfoot2

It is only September. I hope he gets this all under control for both his sake and the kids.

I know! And that's the portion of me that was leaning towards her doing the assignment. I know the principal at this school and I know he's supportive. I know if the teacher asked, the principal would come and sit in the classroom and provide assistance towards getting the kids in line.

 

[ShoeDiva]

Almost without fail, I have always been a strong supporter of the teachers. And, many times stood with the teachers instead of my children. I went into each situation believing in the adult in the room and accepting the fact that children will tell the story to their advantage. A teacher when my son was in the 6th grade burned me on that one. While I will confirm that she is an exception, I now know it can happen. And, I know parents are out of control and, as a result, kids are out of control.

I do not know the teacher in my daughter's situation. Surprisingly, it is a male teacher who seems to be having problems getting these kids in line. (yes, you may construe that as sexist if you so choose)

Yes, we've had the conversations with our children about life isn't always fair. The way my Dad worded situations like this was "you are classed with the company you keep". (Ex., you may be sober, but if you are at the party and others are drunk they will take you all to jail and sort it out later.)

Last year my daughter had a teacher who told the class she didn't like them. She would have my daughter take things to the front office for her and told her it was because she was the only one in the class she could trust.

My daughter has not (yet) completed the assignment, but I have sent in my signature and acknowledged the assignment. I, quite frankly, haven't decided if I will make her complete it or not. :seesaw

Wow.. on the teacher saying that to the class. I believe your daughter was trusted, she is one I would pick too. ) Honestly the teacher this year probably knows that too. Her demeanor is one of a child that is sweet and follows direction, you can usually tell.

Is the teacher this year a new one?

He is new to the school. Based on the phone message this morning, he has an accent, but I'm not sure where he is from. It makes me wonder if kids are taking advantage. Actually, no. I'm not wondering, I'm pretty sure they are. :tapfoot2

It is only September. I hope he gets this all under control for both his sake and the kids.

I know! And that's the portion of me that was leaning towards her doing the assignment. I know the principal at this school and I know he's supportive. I know if the teacher asked, the principal would come and sit in the classroom and provide assistance towards getting the kids in line.

I wonder since this is a guy and with it being his first year there if he is embarrassed to ask? I hope if the assignment does not work he puts pride aside and asks for help.

 

[Madea]

:agreed

 

[Boss 302]

There are times when I think mass punishment is necessary. We used it in basic training a lot to get people to police each other and work together as a team. When I was a kid in school, there were times when someone in the classroom did something wrong to the teacher, but the teacher didn't know who it was. An example would be throwing a wadded piece of paper or hitting her with a spitball while her back was turned. When asking who did it and nobody would answer, the entire class was punished. It wasn't me doing it, it was some other kid who most likely ended up in prison after high school. He would continue to do this type of thing and each time nobody said anything the class was punished. Finally, it came to a head and when he did it again, most of the kids pointed their finger at him when she asked who did it.